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                                                             on Gopher (inofficial)
   URI Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
   DIR   Launch HN: Enombic (YC S20) – Create your own stock indexes
       
       
        londons_explore wrote 1 day ago:
        I'd like the ability to see a stock or indexes historical "total
        return".  That should include dividends.  It should include currency
        fluctuations of whatever currency it's traded.    It should take into
        account taxes on dividends Vs capital gains.  It should take into
        account stock splits, etc.
        
        Today, answering the question "If I had bought FTSE100 50 years ago,
        would I be better off today compared to buying Gold", is too hard
       
        maximente wrote 3 days ago:
        awesome - always wanted to try to create a vegan/clean meat ETF that
        isn't mostly tech - will check this out
       
        syedkarim wrote 3 days ago:
        Do you support the creation of something similar to an inverse ETF, so
        a basket of stocks can be shorted?
       
        zacharycohn wrote 3 days ago:
        This looks super cool. Discussion amongst some friends of mine - how
        are you handling trust? I trust Vanguard not to pull a fast one after
        I've invested my money in one of their indexes, how do I trust JoeShmo
        when I invest in JoeShmo/dreamindex ?
       
        lr4444lr wrote 3 days ago:
        Amazing concept. I will definitely look into opening an account, and
        wish you great success.
       
        boringg wrote 3 days ago:
        Super interesting - like the clean aesthetic of the website.
        
        I realize this questions is super early but it is an important one
        given the current debacle with Robinhood.
        
        How do you plan on funding the product as you go to market and undwind
        VC positions?  Is this a subscription model, is this going to be
        something that is funded through selling data on the backend to keep
        costs low for the trader, portion of trades, MER?
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          This is a great question that we've put a lot of thought into, since
          we share the same concerns you do. We currently monetize via a
          subscription model for premium features, such as unlimited private
          indexes and access to full version histories of your and other users'
          indexes.
          
          However, part of what appeals to us about bringing more of the
          financial stack in-house is exploring innovative models beyond PFOF &
          MER. Lots of room for creativity here.
          
          Glad you like our site design too. :)
       
            tjs8rj wrote 2 days ago:
            What does the legal of this look like? Presumably if you are
            managing others money you’d count as a roboadvisor?
       
            boringg wrote 3 days ago:
            I imagine it will change as the product evolves.  Fee structure is
            always a tricky dance and only really matters once you have product
            market fit and are taking off.    Glad to hear you are giving it
            early consideration.
            
            My take is being very upfront about how you guys make money then
            clients understand the model which will likely avoid downstream
            challenges!
            
            Good luck.
       
              aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
              Spot on :)
       
        keammo1 wrote 3 days ago:
        This is a really great idea! Is there any reason this is "for hackers"
        and "like code"? I'm waiting to get in off the waitlist so I haven't
        seen the actual UI, but is it easy enough for non-technical users to
        get in and set up their portfolio?
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Thank you! "For hackers" is because it's very DIY, at least at the
          moment, e.g. if you like to fiddle with different ideas. "Like code"
          is because we've used a lot of our favorite github features in
          building the UI (version control and advanced permissioning to
          start). That being said, we've tried hard to make things generally
          accessible, and we're finding non-dev users don't have any issues.
       
        isuckatcoding wrote 3 days ago:
        Here’s where I think you’d get real buy in. Build an integration
        with something like Robinhood that automatically uses the selected
        portfolio and allow the user to configure a max amount so they can get
        a feel for it without completely revamping their entire portfolio.
       
        multimedial wrote 3 days ago:
        Super-stupid suggestion, but…
        why not enhance building indices for given topics?
        Some sort of semi-automatic creation?
        
        Say I believe in genome editing, CRISPR and personal medicine, and I
        would like to have XX stocks in my index. Your system could support me
        by picking the appropriate stocks.
        
        Biggest issue is to map trending topics to XX according companies for
        me.
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Lots of our early users have asked a similar question. We're actively
          working on search & browse to help improve how you discover and bring
          together great indexes and stocks, many of which will no doubt be
          themed. CRISPR is a good example, we've definitely noticed an
          interest in biotech developing on our platform, e.g. [1] .
          
          Another neat thing is to see how the metrics improve when you bring
          differently-themed indexes together (e.g. [2] ), since the underlying
          assets are more decorrelated.
          
   URI    [1]: https://enombic.com/aml/biotech
   URI    [2]: https://enombic.com/aml/diversified
       
        multimedial wrote 3 days ago:
        Hi,
        
        all fine and dandy, yet there is no european version of your website (I
        guess?) nor any way for a european person to invest using your site,
        right?
        
        If anyone knows about european alternatives to enombic, passiv or
        m1finance - please let me know.
       
          multimedial wrote 3 days ago:
          Only thing I am aware of that is remotely comparable is Wikifolio (
          [1] ), then again, i am not very knowledgeable in that area, so if
          anyone has interesting european-based investing startup-links, I am
          all for it, please post and/or DM me. Thanks.
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.wikifolio.com/
       
        flippyhead wrote 3 days ago:
        One thing I notice right away is that I wish there was some kind of
        description or context for some of these custom index things. Like why
        did the creator decide on this mix? What's the background? Otherwise
        they are just lists of stocks.
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Agreed. We're excited to improve this part of the product
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Yes agreed! Right now users can write a short description but we want
          to expand on this. Thanks for your feedback.
       
          keammo1 wrote 3 days ago:
          Yes! This was my first thought. Tell me a little about each fund.
          Even if you have some familiarity with every company in the
          portfolio, it might not not be immediately obvious why they are being
          grouped together.
       
            aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
            Love this suggestion. We've got lots of plans for helping folks
            communicate their thesis & decision making. Personally I like the
            README metaphor, but we also want to facilitate  comments &
            discussions
       
        hirawat wrote 3 days ago:
         [1] does something similar for Indian markets.
        
   URI  [1]: https://www.smallcase.com/
       
        dharma1 wrote 3 days ago:
        nice, been waiting for this. Some questions - What broker do you use?
        How do you do rebalancing?
       
        timwaagh wrote 3 days ago:
        I'd be worried about the costs. if i buy an 'index' of stocks weighed a
        certain way, then i guess you guys would be buying those stocks. except
        the number of stocks in an index is much larger than a typical
        portfolio. indexes fix this with economies of scale however you do not
        have the scale as everyone is creating their own indexes. wouldn't the
        client ultimately have to pay a lot of total transaction costs (even if
        its no-commission, there is still bid-ask spread) to the point of
        making the entire exercise inadvisable?
       
          govg wrote 3 days ago:
          "The ubiquity of zero-commission and fractional-share trading means
          that diversification and customization is easier than ever"
          
          I think what they are relying on is the fact that nowadays you can
          own fractional shares (so you don't have to spend that much money to
          own an index since you no longer care about owning whole number
          units) as well as zero cost trading (so you don't really have costs
          to maintaining a portfolio or creating one).
          
          Note that in most cases the bid-ask spreads are low (since for major
          indices there is enough liquidity in their constituents), and as such
          won't meaningfully contribute to your gains / losses unless you are
          rebalancing often enough to factor this in(in which case, making an
          index is pointless).
       
          abanayev wrote 3 days ago:
          This was my thought immediately upon reading the title. Would love to
          see what the team says.
       
        deepGem wrote 3 days ago:
        Signed up for the waitlist. Just a quick question when you say
        construct sector specific indexes - are these indexes available for
        others to invest ? So for instance let's say i create an index and show
        my skin in the game by investing in that index with returns - can
        others potentially follow suit and invest in that index or even a
        portfolio ? This is something that I have been ruminating on for a
        while.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Anyone can invest in any public index. We do have private indexes too
          (this is a premium feature, where we charge a subscription), wherein
          only folks you share your index with can view and invest. You can
          also "nest" others' indexes in your indexes (e.g. [1] ).
          
          We don't surface a lot around how much you invest right now, as there
          are some privacy concerns. But, depending on how things evolve it may
          be something we enable.
          
   URI    [1]: https://enombic.com/aml/autopilot
       
        flotothemoon wrote 3 days ago:
        This looks awesome, great idea. I'm drawn to any project that makes
        more or less inaccessible things programmatically queryable (and even
        controllable), so this fits the bill perfectly. And in finance, too! :D
        
        Are you planning on eventually expanding to Europe? Or do you know of
        any similar services in the EU?
       
        leoncvlt wrote 3 days ago:
        This looks great, congrats! For those already using Trading212 in EU /
        UK, I've built a few tools that try and accomplish a similar thing
        using their pie features:
        
        • etf4u ( [1] ) scrapes equities mutual funds and mix and match your
        custom indexes
        
        • trading212-pie-sync ( [2] ) takes the information from the tool
        above (or ay external source, really) and automatically updates the
        pie's allocation (which would take a long time if done manually)
        
   URI  [1]: https://github.com/leoncvlt/etf4u
   URI  [2]: https://github.com/leoncvlt/trading212-pie-sync
       
        jldugger wrote 3 days ago:
        So, most FAANG employees are not allowed to trade in derivates that
        short sell their own stock, which I figure is half insider trading
        protection and half ensuring equity compensation actually works.
        
        However, I've often wondered if those employees could still offload
        some of the assumed risk of portfolio concentration by investing their
        free investable cash in, say, their own SP499: every company in the
        SP500 except the one they work for. Though I suppose you'd have to have
        a pretty big net worth to fully offset unvested shares this way.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          We have a handful of users with this exact use case!
       
            jldugger wrote 3 days ago:
            Honestly the reason I haven't pulled the trigger on this myself
            isn't the automation, but because managing the dividend
            reinvestment transactions come tax time would be absurdly time
            consuming.
       
          toast0 wrote 3 days ago:
          I agree, an S&P499 could be pretty handy, especially for people with
          ISOs instead of RSUs. It's generally pretty simple to sell RSUs when
          they vest and diversify, but ISOs are more complex. If you can avoid
          realizing some of the gain, while ending up with S&P 500 equivalent
          holdings, that would be neat. Of course, that would still be selling
          most of it.
       
        smabie wrote 3 days ago:
        Very awesome work guys. A lot cool things could be done wrt to
        portfolio optimization. Not sure if you have this already, but being
        able to specify optimizers (BL model, min variance, EF, risk parity,
        etc) would be super cool. Like support stuff from [1] Also classic
        academic portfolios would be interesting as well, like a betting
        against beta or a multi factor portfolio.
        
        So much you could do with it really. I've always been of the opinion
        that finance has failed retail investors, both mutual fund (closet
        indexers) and the backlash which has resulted with many people only
        holding a market portfolio, or maybe a (terrible imo) 60/40 portfolio.
        
   URI  [1]: https://pyportfolioopt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Agreed! We haven't brought optimization in-product yet because we
          want to get it right, but we've been having fun doing things like
          this more informally. E.g. [1] uses the markowitz model to calculate
          its weights.
          
          One of our main goals with enombic is to empower retail investors
          with more advanced tooling, glad to hear you're sympathetic to this.
          Would love to chat more about it if you want, hello [at] enombic
          [dot] com.
          
   URI    [1]: https://enombic.com/mandelbrot/wsb-MPT
       
        safeerm wrote 3 days ago:
        This is great, and would love a beta invite. I run [1] and share my
        entire portfolio for free. Have 300+ people using it and need a better
        way for it to scale. Currently share it through M1 but everyone has to
        manually update it so I can really update it only 1-2 times a year.
        
   URI  [1]: https://101.finance
       
        yawnxyz wrote 3 days ago:
        wow I was prototyping this myself and I'm glad someone else built it
        instead so I don't have to!
        
        Does this hook up to Alpaca or something to let me buy and ease in and
        out in increments
       
        frakkingcylons wrote 3 days ago:
        What kind of entity is Enombic? Is it like a brokerage? I’m honestly
        a little nervous of using stuff like this because I’m worried about
        bugs in nascent software or unproven customer support. This would be a
        huge improvement over my current implementation: Occasionally loading
        ma CSV of my positions into a spreadsheet, then entering in buy/sell
        orders manually with the new calculations. But I put up with it for now
        because I have faith in my process and my brokerage.
       
        aynyc wrote 3 days ago:
        I hate to be a negative person, but isn’t this what Steve Jobs called
        a feature, not a product? I work on trading systems before, custom
        built indices are very common. What’s stopping IB, Fidelity etc to
        simply put this in their system?
        I don’t know how you do rebalancing, corporate actions, etc?
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Paul Graham wrote about this:
          
   URI    [1]: http://www.paulgraham.com/startuplessons.html
       
          abalaji wrote 3 days ago:
          I've asked around for this feature, since I started trading because
          its the type of investing I'm interested in. There do not currently
          exist autobalancing features on trading platforms (at least on TD or
          for small fish).
          
          You'd have to build something custom. I'd definitely use their
          product!
       
            aynyc wrote 3 days ago:
            I definitely see it as a valuable feature and I hope they
            successful disrupt the current market as capital market is too high
            and mighty.
       
        Jommi wrote 3 days ago:
        Another company in the field:
        
   URI  [1]: https://passiv.com
       
        gresrun wrote 3 days ago:
        This product seems very similar to Motif.com, which shutdown about a
        year ago. How do you plan to avoid sharing their fate?
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Yes, we actually weren't aware of motif until we onboarded a few
          users were who die hard Motif users. I think the value prop is quite
          similar but there are some important differences. For example, my
          understanding is the fees on Motif were somewhat high.
          Zero-commission was likely a disruptive force for them. Also, the
          number of sophisticated retail investors was much smaller when they
          started. The number of intermediate to advanced retail market is
          growing rapidly now that the onramps are much better.
       
        _rohan wrote 3 days ago:
        Looking forward to trying this. I noticed that the graphs on the
        portfolio page only go back to the date of creation. Are you planning
        to add support for viewing historical data? EDIT: it seems to go back
        to some arbitrary data a few months ago. Can't quite tell how that date
        is chosen.
        
        Also FYI that I didn't receive a confirmation email after signing up
        for the waitlist.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Currently the charts go back to either: the most recent IPO, or 1
          year from today.
          
          We're working on supporting multiple time scales. Had to first do
          some refactoring on the backend to make this quick but it's in place
          now.
          
          We've had a few hiccups with the confirmation notifications. The list
          seems correct though, and we'll reach out directly with invites.
          Thanks for the heads up.
       
        DennisP wrote 3 days ago:
        I assume this hooks into back-end brokerages? Which ones?
       
        abalaji wrote 3 days ago:
        I tried signing up but have been hitting an unauthorized error and am
        being bounced out. Is this currently only a landing page or is it
        something we can try?
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Once we invite you from the waitlist you'll be able to sign in. We'll
          prioritize anyone who signs up today, and invite them in shortly.
       
        adv0r wrote 3 days ago:
        I want to be able to charge a fee on top of my indexes before making
        "subscribable" by others. That'd attract a shitload of users ;)
        
        EDIT1: Also: are you familiar with your competitors on the crypto side
        of things? 
        Iconomi, to name one.
        
        EDIT2: Is this available to non-US users? That'd be huge, as we are not
        able to access ARK directly , to name one
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          We're looking into this model! We need to understand the regulatory
          landscape in more detail first. But it's definitely something users
          are asking for.
          
          Haven't heard of Iconomi, thanks for the pointer! We're not focused
          on crypto at the moment.
          
          Right now only US users can invest. But, anyone can use the platform
          to build indexes.
       
        wheybags wrote 3 days ago:
        Oh man, this is actually exactly something I want. I want to invest in
        the s&p 500, like an index etf, but I want to filter out companies
        which I don't agree with ethically. I also want to look at my custom
        index's performance historically so I can see how well it tracks the
        overall market.
        
        It is extremely hard to actually do this. There's a plethora of hurdles
        in the way - you need to get data (I bought some historical s&p 500
        data, seemed to be the only way), and then you need to figure out what
        to do with it too. When you look at a graph on the index, what is that
        based on? Do they rebalance every day? Monthly? Who knows? I was never
        able to reconstruct an s&p 500 graph from source data myself as a
        baseline.
        
        I will definitely be giving this a try.
        
        EDIT: signed up for the waitlist!
        
        Also, a question: Can you use this without some sort of linked broker
        account? IE, you tell it what you've got, and it spits out instructions
        that you execute manually? I ask because I'm in Europe, and only the
        big American brokers ever seem to get proper integrations with
        anything.
       
          Jommi wrote 3 days ago:
          There is a product that already does this
          
   URI    [1]: https://passiv.com
       
            searchableguy wrote 2 days ago:
            For India, there is smallcase.
            
   URI      [1]: https://www.smallcase.com/
       
            matthewpick wrote 3 days ago:
            I think M1 Finance is also very similar.
            
   URI      [1]: https://www.m1finance.com/
       
              wheybags wrote 2 days ago:
              Just tried both of these. Passiv requires me to link a broker
              account, and doesn't support my broker. M1 is US-only. Both
              non-starters. I just want to enter my trades by hand, I don't
              need a fancy auto-buy broker integration.
       
                kmckiern wrote 1 day ago:
                That’s great feedback, thank you!
                
                We believe we’re differentiated in being both social and
                prosumer. E.g. we give advanced risk and performance metrics on
                every index, and are building a lot in-app for folks to
                collaborate.
       
              vincentmarle wrote 3 days ago:
              Yup I also use M1 Finance. I have my main portfolio that contains
              multiple sub portfolios. Works great, but the only thing I
              can’t do there is share it with my friends. I guess that’s
              the only novel part of Enombic? Although I used Motif Investing
              in the past to share my portfolio with friends, but they didn’t
              have free trading.
       
                faitswulff wrote 3 days ago:
                You can share your M1 “pies” with other users. Here’s an
                example:
                
   URI          [1]: https://dashboard.m1finance.com/share/H4sIAAAAAAACA6tW...
       
                monkeydust wrote 3 days ago:
                Anything similar available to UK investors (connects to a UK
                brokerage)?
       
          knjmooney wrote 3 days ago:
          Are you aware of the S&P 500 ESG index?
       
            wheybags wrote 3 days ago:
            There are various "ethical" indexes, but pretty much none of them
            exclude google or facebook (which would be at the top of my
            cut-list). I want to do my own individual research on each company,
            and come to my own conclusions.
       
              jdthedisciple wrote 10 hours 4 min ago:
              I can identify fully with your investing needs and am looking for
              exactly the same as you - some sort of custom etfs that fully
              comply with my ethics and morale. Just wanted to mention that :)
       
            safog wrote 3 days ago:
            I think it has mostly been established that these are bogus and the
            actual companies don't really do much of anything social /
            environmental. [1] Anyway, these are ethical concepts and can vary
            widely between person to person. Some might not want to invest in
            energy companies at all where as others might not have anything
            against companies selling oil / cars with internal combustion
            engines but take objection to a company's CEO being against BLM for
            example.
            
   URI      [1]: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/26/chamath-palihapitiya-esg-i...
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          That's great, can't wait to get you on the product! There are a lot
          of features you can use around creating indexes, it's not required
          that you invest.
       
        julienchastang wrote 3 days ago:
        On the topic of creating your own index, we’ve all heard of the SP
        500, or the Russell 2000 indices, but isn’t it possible to mine the
        historical data to create an index that has a better rate of return
        based on one or more criteria such as market cap or P/E? E.g., stocks
        that fall within this range of P/E tend to outperform the market in a
        ten year time range. This would be an elaboration of the concept that
        small cap stock indices tend to do better over time because they have
        more room to grow, in contrast to the SP500 dominated by FAANG
        companies that have most of their growth behind them. I doubt this is a
        novel idea, but I just have not heard of it before.
       
          DennisP wrote 3 days ago:
          Yes, you can buy low-cost passively-managed funds that invest in
          value stocks, based on objective criteria. One example is VBR,
          Vanguard's small-cap value ETF, with an expense ratio of 0.07%. There
          are many others.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Absolutely. Would you want to make this index?
       
        mrhichem wrote 3 days ago:
        Trading212 (uk based) has already this. They call this investing pies.
        It is already a hit in europe
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks for mentioning them! Yes some folks have pointed us to
          Trading212.
       
        crazygringo wrote 3 days ago:
        This is fascinating. Since you don't have any info at all on the site
        (at least not without signing up), a few questions:
        
        - Since it's not just for designing the indexes but actually investing
        them... how? Do you link to a Robin Hood API or something? What trading
        platforms do you integrate with?
        
        - Obviously a huge part of an index is maintaining desired
        weightings/criteria, which involves buying and selling shares in order
        to preserve them. How often do you perform this rebalancing? Daily?
        Monthly? The very moment a certain "max" threshold is crossed to
        restore it to a "desired" value? Over a max threshold for some amount
        of time?
        
        - If I have a particularly "active" index with lots of rebalancing, am
        I going to get hit with tons of short-term capital gains even though
        I'm holding the index long-term?
        
        And finally, what happens if automated rebalancing produces a serious
        money-losing bug? Are investors using your platform at their own risk?
       
          sweeneyrod wrote 3 days ago:
          "Obviously a huge part of an index is maintaining desired weightings"
          Actually it's not. Suppose I have an index that should contain AAPL
          and TSLA weighted by market cap, with total value $100,000. Say they
          both have 1000 shares in existence, and on Monday their prices are
          $100 and $300 respectively. Then my index will consist of $25,000 =
          250 shares in AAPL and $75,000 = 250 shares in TSLA.
          
          Now suppose on Tuesday the price of TSLA has increased to $700, so my
          index should be 1/8 AAPL and 7/8 TSLA. It's tempting to think this
          means I have to rebalance by selling AAPL/buying TLSA. But that's not
          right! I have 250 AAPL shares which are still worth $25,000, and 250
          TSLA shares which are now worth $175,000. So I'm already at the
          desired 1:8 ratio.
       
            crazygringo wrote 3 days ago:
            It depends on the index you're building.
            
            If you're weighting purely by market cap then it's not very
            important, as you describe. (Accounting for newly issued shares is
            the only issue, but is often minor enough it can just be ignored.)
            
            But if you're weighting by sector, for example, then it's hugely
            important, no? Indeed basically any weighting strategy except
            market cap requires rebalancing as a primary concern.
       
        mcgin wrote 3 days ago:
        Nice idea, having worked in a similar problem space for a number of
        years, I have some questions.
        
        - How are you managing rebalancing, what might trigger a rebalance and
        how do you manage the tax implications of that?
        
        - With a rebalance/deposit/withdrawal are you always a taker in the
        market?
        
        - What's the custody side of this look like? i.e where do the stocks
        sit, are they in my brokerage account or are you custodian.
        
        - How are you accounting for dividends in the portfolios do they get
        reinvested/included in returns?
        
        - Can you manage all types of corporate action like splits, mergers,
        delisting, halts etc.?
       
          bernardv wrote 3 days ago:
          That last one is when reality hits :-)
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks, would be curious to get your thoughts given your experience
          in this problem space.
          
          Since we lean DIY / prosumer, our thought is to provide options to
          the user. Around rebalancing, we're exploring a few options: calendar
          rebalancing, constant-proportion rebalancing, and rebalancing with
          only new contributions. Then, analytics to make it clear what is a
          short vs long-term holding.
          
          Right now we're non custodial, we link to existing brokers. We are
          looking to become a register broker dealer in the next few months.
          The fractional-heavy model makes it such that it's better for us to
          vertically integrate.
       
            mcgin wrote 3 days ago:
            Always happy to chat with people about this space, contact info is
            in my profile if you want to reach out
       
              late2part wrote 2 days ago:
              VTI has an expense ratio of 0.03% or 0.00003.
              
              With free trading I can recreate the VTI portfolio for free.  Do
              taxes and time cost more than 0.00003?
              
              At $10M it costs $300.    Depends on your portfolio?
       
        truted2 wrote 3 days ago:
        Looking at the dev tools, auth.enombic.com/authorize is being pinged
        about once a second. Seems like an Oauth request gone awry?
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          good catch, will fix shortly :)
       
        monkeydust wrote 3 days ago:
        Having recently put together a mostly ETF portfolio for someone I
        realized that unintentionally you could end building a large exposure
        to one stock, in my case... No surprise... it was TSLA. I found a tool
        on morning star which allowed me to do this analysis but would be good
        to have this in your app.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Definitely! We are really interested in portfolio analytics. This
          would surface naturally with our app.
       
        odobo wrote 3 days ago:
        This is a great idea. A few months back I was telling a friend that I
        would love to make an index based on Senator's stock picks (since it's
        all public info), but I don't have the first clue on making an
        ETF/index. Are there any plans to reward people who create popular
        indexes? As I understand, currently index funds & ETFs can make a lot
        of money off fees
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks! We're excited to help folks work together to level up their
          diversification strategy for exactly the reasons you shared.
          
          Re: popular indexes and creator incentives, we have lots of ideas in
          the works. Glad you're interested in it!
       
        w1 wrote 3 days ago:
        Have you considered allowing the creators of a popular index to receive
        a small fee, similar to current ETF commission structures?
        
        Y’all seem like you’re in a great position to create a vibrant
        community for the next generation of investors, and giving financial
        influencers a return could help bring people to your platform.
       
          narrowblind wrote 3 days ago:
          What do you think of this? They appear to be operational, but with
          minimal adoption.
          
   URI    [1]: https://genesis.vision/
       
          mdorazio wrote 3 days ago:
          Same thought from me - along the lines of recreating the "Becky"
          index from WSB [1] as an actual ETF that people could invest in for
          ~0.1% fees.
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/b6hvdf/i_in...
       
            kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
            There are a few "notes" of WSB on the app. Haven't seen the Becky
            index yet though!
       
          takeiteasyy wrote 3 days ago:
          This is a fun idea, it would let anyone be a hedge fund manager. List
          the managers own money invested, other's money invested, commision
          rate, associated social media accounts, "risk"/diversification
          metrics, proportional and absolute gains/losses since inception (for
          what it's worth).
          Personally I would still keep the majority of my investments in an
          index fund, but for a particular kind of person I can see the social
          aspect is very engaging.
       
            Tostino wrote 2 days ago:
            I could see this going terribly wrong with the cult of personality
            that people are able to cultivate organically being so massive
            compared to the past.
            
            As I'm typing this out though I realize that there's no difference
            between individuals wielding that type of influence over people,
            and the existing power structures who are doing the exact same
            thing for their own benefit right now.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Indeed! We've been thinking through this model, but there's still a
          bit more to figure out. Our primary goal is to empower the prosumer
          retail investor.
       
            Mumps wrote 3 days ago:
            I'd like to offer the counter to some of the support for this idea.
            I worry that as soon as there is a commision structure in place:
            
            A) The marketplace will become absolutely flooded with copy after
            copy after copy of $GENERIC_ETF as people are trying to scramble
            onto some comissions.
            
            A2) It will destroy the community aspect of people sharing ideas
            just because. This has been seen in a lot of other marketplace
            areas before.
            
            B) It'll be back to the same problem of losing money to fees -
            which is the whole point of low cost brokerages and etfs for us
            poors.
            
            Please, please, do not implement this.
       
            gregod wrote 3 days ago:
             [1] does something similar for the German speaking market. One
            part is a social portfolio sharing / tracking component. The other
            is that they create securities from popular portfolios under a
            revenue share model with the creators.
            
   URI      [1]: https://www.wikifolio.com/
       
              multimedial wrote 3 days ago:
              I find the costs to be prohibitevly high though…
       
            cgb223 wrote 3 days ago:
            I can tell you the difference between me being a user and not being
            a user is this exact feature.
            
            I can buy stocks on my own in different quantities to make my own
            “ETF” (granted not at fractional share prices)
            
            But if I could bundle it and make a small commission for it,
            you’d have my business for the rest of my life
            
            Also, what an awesome incentive that would be for me to share your
            product around with others who would invest in it! I’d literally
            be getting paid to do it!
       
              kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
              That's great feedback, thanks!
              
              I still find a lot of value without commission as my preferred
              investing style was unwieldy to do manually. I suppose it depends
              on the complexity of your index. As you approach 40+ it gets
              pretty time consuming.
       
          endisneigh wrote 3 days ago:
          I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't you just look at a
          popular index and replicate it for free?
       
            kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
            Some folks may be too lazy to do that, unless you could
            automatically update the copy.
            
            In addition to this, we actually have advanced permissioning. So
            folks can have private indexes. However, we still need to work
            through what it would mean to invest in an index where you could
            not see the composition. Not sure on that front yet.
       
        riffraff wrote 3 days ago:
        love the idea, but will this be open to people outside the US?
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Thank you! Not at the moment but we hope eventually.
       
        ZeroCool2u wrote 3 days ago:
        Really cool idea folks! Just signed up for the wait list.
        
        Knee jerk feedback:
        
        1. Dark mode & mobile/desktop apps on the roadmap? :)
        
        2. It would be really cool to see some basic social features. Maybe
        these exist already when you're logged in? I have a few Signal chats
        with friends that are just full of screenshots of our IBKR apps etc and
        it would be cool to be able to collaborate/communicate privately with a
        small group about the construction of one of these ETF's.
        
        3. I had a lot of the same questions about taxes/rebalancing, etc. but
        I see a lot of people have already asked about that as well, so I'll
        look through your comments for more info.
        
        4. Where are you based and what's your tech stack like?
        
        Congrats on the launch!
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Hey! Great questions/feedback:
          
          1. Would love both, but no specific timeline yet.
          
          2. Agreed, re: social. We have some preliminary social features, but
          keen on building out more. Most of our users have group chats with
          friends like you've described (as do we). We want to bring the right
          parts of that experience in-product.
          
          3. Thanks, yeah it's an exciting part of the product we look forward
          to building more advanced features for.
          
          4. We're based in the bay area, our tech stack is react, nextjs, swr,
          python, aiohttp, redis, postgres (& timescaledb), k8s, terraform,
          aws.
          
          Looking forward to getting you signed up!
       
            donnythecroc wrote 3 days ago:
            This is great idea. I've signed up to wait list. Interested to know
            period to launch/full access?
       
              aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
              Thanks! Appreciate you checking us out. Getting a lot of
              engagement, we'll be bringing folks in as quickly as we can
              handle.
       
        mehulagrawal wrote 3 days ago:
        Smallcase in India has been doing something similar. You can create
        your own "smallcase" or use any of the pre defined ones.
       
        monkeydust wrote 3 days ago:
        Interesting. Reminded me of a piece in the FT I read recently around
        Direct Indexing. [1] Would love to try it. Have signed up on waitlist.
        
   URI  [1]: https://on.ft.com/3rDhUd5
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Just opened this up in a tab. Looking forward to reading it later.
          Thanks!
       
        smalter wrote 3 days ago:
        great timing, doji just launched today too [1] trydoji.com
        
   URI  [1]: https://twitter.com/ianmendiola/status/1364974427419598851
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks for the link, we'll definitely check them out.
       
        carbotaniuman wrote 3 days ago:
        I love it! Is it possible for you to add other markets, like Forex or
        hedging foreign stocks? Putting stuff that you would usually have to
        write yourself is very welcome, but I think there's a lot more that
        could be done here.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Awesome, thank you! We love diversification and to do that well, it's
          great to include a range of different asset classes / markets. For
          the next couple months though, while we refine our UX, we'll be
          sticking to stocks and ETFs. That being said, we have an ambitious
          long term road map.
       
        dsanchez97 wrote 3 days ago:
        I signed up for the waitlist as this looks like a promising platform.
        Just curious, does this connect directly to a brokerage site (my own or
        another 3rd party) to make the trades?
       
        thegreatpeter wrote 3 days ago:
        I have had so much fun messing around with enombic the last couple of
        months. The founders are super responsive, friendly and obviously
        smart!
        
        I look forward to watching enombic grow! Good luck team!
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks Peter! It's been terrific having you on and getting your
          feedback.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks thegreatpeter!
       
        forgotmysn wrote 3 days ago:
        is it possible for other investors to participate or subscribe to your
        ETF, the way Angellist does for angel investments?
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks for checking us out! Any user can invest in any other user's
          index, as long as it's public.
       
        dsr_ wrote 3 days ago:
        Your privacy policy is either borrowed from a previous iteration of the
        company (supply chain logistics?) or from a sample somewhere. You
        should fix that.
        
        I work for a not-quite-YC* company adjacent to yours; I see some
        plausible symbiosis. I have an email address in my profile here --
        reach out?
        
        * The photo at www.paulgraham.com/yctable.html shows two founders of my
        company talking to YC Summer 2005.
       
        andylash wrote 3 days ago:
        RIA's offer this kind of custom constructed direct indexing as a value
        add, so there's clearly a market amongst the broader non-active-trader
        types.
        
        I bet you could lean into the huge and growing ESG (
        Environmental, Social, and Governance) sector, because people have very
        different opinions about what "good" and "bad" are.  For example most
        ESG funds are heavily weighted to social media, but maybe you think oil
        and social media are both bad?    There isn't an easy to access product
        for that.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Absolutely. Direct indexing has some unique benefits. Of course it's
          a bit more complex to track everything, but that's where we come in.
          
          We've had users get quite excited about ESG indexes. Especially with
          "forking" more traditional indexes and removing companies they're not
          morally aligned with.
       
            DennisP wrote 3 days ago:
            Yep, personally I want things like small-value or
            fundamental-weighted funds that exclude fossil fuel companies, and
            that doesn't seem to exist.
       
        cargo8 wrote 3 days ago:
        This is a really really powerful concept – are you hiring?
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks! We are. :) Looking in particular for a strong backend
          engineer. Tech stack is python, aiohttp, redis, postgres (&
          timescaledb), k8s, terraform, aws (react, nextjs, swr on the
          frontend).
          
          Know anyone?
       
            cphoover wrote 3 days ago:
            I'm interested in learning more
       
        mkrishnan wrote 3 days ago:
        Cool idea, it it works. important thing is re-balancing should not be a
        taxable event.
       
        impostervt wrote 3 days ago:
        What's the source of the name?
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          combine -> enombic
       
        endisneigh wrote 3 days ago:
        If and when you become huge one interesting thing you might consider
        (if legal) is to become very liquid and actually allow users to trade
        stocks directly without selling to minimize tax.
        
        For example, if AMC is $1 and GME is $1, instead of buying the stocks
        directly we pay you $1.001 for both and you basically hold the stock
        for us. If we sell you sell the stock on our behalf and give us the
        cash and handle the tax forms.
        
        However, if we wanted more GME and GME's price fell in half to $0.50
        and AMC's price doubled, the new prices are GME: $0.50 and AMC: $2. It
        would be awesome if we could "trade" our AMC for 4 more GME without
        having to pay the gains on the $1 we earned on AMC.
        
        Obviously you can only delay so much under this scheme, but I'd be
        willing to pay a slight commission if you could facilitate a scheme
        legally to minimize the tax burden of trading.
        
        Like Robinhood making commission-free trades mainstream, if you can
        popularize this that would be good - sometimes if you're holding a very
        popular bubble stock you don't necessary want to cash out for cash and
        want to directly trade it for another stock without selling.
        Unfortunately what I'm describing would require crazy volume to be
        worth the implementation effort, but it's worth thinking about!
       
          scott00 wrote 3 days ago:
          RenTech had the same idea and it made the IRS pretty mad: [1] I
          believe it's still being litigated, so the legality hasn't been
          firmly established yet.
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/newsletters/2019-11-13/mon...
       
          Jommi wrote 3 days ago:
          
          
   URI    [1]: https://passiv.com
       
            justusthane wrote 3 days ago:
            You've commented three times on this post, and they've all been
            links to Passiv. Are you affiliated with the company?
       
          nrmitchi wrote 3 days ago:
          This sounds sort of like an exchange fund, which are typically used
          to people who are extremely concentrated in a single stock/position
          and want some diversification without selling.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          This is super interesting.
          
          Reminds me of how a lot of centralized crypto exchanges work
          off-chain. Buy / sell is still taxable though.
          
          That being said, tax implications are really important so we're
          thinking through what's best for our users with every feature we
          build.
       
          dmurray wrote 3 days ago:
          I think this is not illegal per se, but it's an equity derivative
          product which the SEC would not approve, since they don't approve
          CFDs which go a lot less far than this.
       
        SilasX wrote 3 days ago:
        Would it be able to reproduce strategies that involve options?
        
        I recently learned of the SWAN ETF, which captures (or attempts to)
        most of the S&P's return with significantly less volatility. It holds
        mostly Treasurys, plus options that are in the money if the S&P gains a
        certain percentage[1] They had to create the "S-Network BlackSwan Core
        Total Return Index" for it. [1] They look to buy a year out every six
        months, but I can't tell for sure; it currently has SPY210618C00265000
        (call at S&P = 2650 in June) and SPY 211217C00324000 (call at S&P =
        3240 in December)
        
   URI  [1]: https://www.amplifyetfs.com/swan-holdings.html
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          No options at the moment. We'd be excited to support them down the
          road though.
          
          SWAN ETF is super interesting. Wonder if there is a "long" analog.
          E.g. comparable motivation and performance.
       
            SilasX wrote 3 days ago:
            What do you mean by a long analog? SWAN is long the S&P, it just
            softens the downside.
       
        sgpl wrote 3 days ago:
        Wow, this is really cool. Will definitely give this a spin. Good luck
        to you guys!
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks! Looking forward to getting you on the product.
       
        CapriciousCptl wrote 3 days ago:
        How is this for tax efficiency? Is rebalancing a taxable event? Or can
        you rebalance without selling by just redirecting new contributions to
        the underrepresented issues? Over time a buy-and-hold strategy with
        etfs gives a large compounding bonus since taxes are deferred.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          We're exploring several rebalancing models at the moment (calendar
          rebalancing, constant proportion rebalancing, as well as only
          rebalancing with new contributions), and trying to understand which
          folks are more interested in. Which would you be most interested in?
          
          Definitely want to mitigate tax burden. Additionally, the direct
          indexing model does allow for more flexibility around
          loss-harvesting.
       
            CapriciousCptl wrote 3 days ago:
            Only rebalancing by using new contributions would be preferred. My
            use case is re-creating the s and p 500 exclusive of some issues
            and with regular contributions for retirement.
       
              aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
              Nice, glad to hear it. We lean new contributions as well.
       
            mkrishnan wrote 3 days ago:
            so re-balancing IS a taxable event right?
       
              eximius wrote 3 days ago:
              It CAN be. It depends how you rebalance.
              
              If your target is 50/50 and one stock goes up, you can either
              sell that stock or buy more of the other one. Only one of those
              models is a taxable event.
       
        narrationbox wrote 3 days ago:
        Some ETFs also allow easy investment in stocks of foreign countries
        without requiring additional brokerages on behalf of the end user. I
        presume this does not offer that functionality?
       
        corry wrote 3 days ago:
        Love this idea. For the folks in the comments so far who are
        uncomfortable with the combination of "index" and "picking stocks", I
        think that's unfair. This is obviously a service for relatively
        sophisticated folks who (1) want ETFs that don't exist, or (2) want to
        make minor changes to existing ETFs, or (3) don't want to deal with the
        ETF fees/overheads for whatever reason (although presumably Enombic
        will have fees too).
        
        Here's an example that came to mind:
        
        If you were convinced psychedelic medicine is going to be huge as a
        sector, but also feel it's too early to pick winners/losers (and you
        dislike the expense overhead of PSYK) - great, make your own ETF. You
        still have sector risk but not 'stock picking risk'.
        
        FYI - this is a great real example, but assumes Enomics can handle the
        Neo exchange (in Canada, since that's where most of the psych stocks
        are these days). Like, someone should post this over at /r/shroomstocks
        for real. :)
       
          gwd wrote 3 days ago:
          > (2) want to make minor changes to existing ETFs
          
          This is exactly the use case I've wanted for a long time -- I'd much
          rather just park most of my money in an S&P 500 index fund.  But
          there are some companies there whose business practices I just find
          scummy; and if I own stocks in that fund, those companies will be
          doing those scummy things in my name and for my benefit.  I realize
          there are "ethical" index funds, but somehow their senses of ethics
          and mine don't match 100%.  I'd very much like to be able to say,
          "The S&P 500, but not X Y or Z."
          
          I'll definitely be looking into this.
       
            wheybags wrote 3 days ago:
            1000% agree. "Ethical" is not restricted to "no guns, alcohol or
            cigarettes".
       
              xiphias2 wrote 3 days ago:
              fast food and coke (Warren Buffet stocks) kill much more people
              than all of those combined.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks!
          
          You nailed it. We are building for "prosumer" retail investors who
          have baseline proficiency around these ideas. Over time we'd want to
          make sure our platform is more generally accessible, wherein we would
          build out more in-app education.
          
          Indeed, higher-risk sector-based indexing is a use case we're seeing
          a lot on the app (e.g. [1] ). Then, we're seeing folks couple
          decorrelated sector-based indexes into aggregate indexes (e.g. [2] ,
          this one is actually 50% Vanguard ETFs).
          
          No Neo exchange yet, sorry. Do you know if it's possible to get
          exposure to psychedelic medicine in the US?
          
   URI    [1]: https://enombic.com/jake/crypto
   URI    [2]: https://enombic.com/chris/main
       
        hemloc_io wrote 3 days ago:
        I've actually been working on a small side project related to open
        source finance, so this is super cool to see and I'm very excited to
        use it! This seems like a great tool for use in trading communities
        etc.
        
        I think that using github-esque features feels like a good in-between
        from the crazy gamification of Robinhood vs old and sad UX you see at
        most old brokers.
        
        Are you guys planning on adding options at any point and time, or the
        ability make more advanced strategies than a basket of stocks?
        
        EDIT: You lose the share link as soon as you click away from the
        waitlist page, might wanna send an email with it after ppl sign up for
        the waitlist :)
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks! Couldn't agree more. On the strategies front, we have some
          exciting ideas in the works. Github is one of our favorite products,
          tons to draw on for more advanced strategy development. Glad you
          appreciate the analogy.
          
          Great to hear you've been working on some things in open source
          finance. We love getting feedback from folks who are building in the
          space. Looking forward to getting you on the product.
       
        jagan120 wrote 3 days ago:
        Few questions from my side:
        
        - Is it possible to make indexes of other country equivalents on this
        platform? Even if those stocks arent listed on US Markets.
        
        - How are the taxes going to work in general if the indexes are
        actively managed?
        
        - Are the 8949s and 1099s autogenerated for individual users by
        enombic?
        
        Thanks!
       
        reagan83 wrote 3 days ago:
        Congrats on the launch Keri & Chris! This is a fantastic concept that
        I've done on my own throughout the years. I'm excited to see if this
        will bridge the gap between index funds and previous gen, higher fee,
        mutual funds.
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks! We're especially excited to hear from folks who've DIY'd this
          kind of strategy before, would love your feedback.
       
            bfm wrote 3 days ago:
            Good luck with the launch!
            
            I've been DIY'ing exactly this full time over the last year.
            Rolling out my own system using Polygon and IEXCloud for market
            data, DolphinDB and Shakti for time series processing, and
            Pandas/Dask for verification and parameter optimization.
            
            I totally underestimated the magnitude of the problem, so I'm
            really looking forward to trying Enombic.
            
            Given my frustration with the DIY approach, I started evaluating
            some prosumer tools a couple of weeks ago. One of them uses
            Morningstar data, and the other uses FactSet data. They are in the
            $100-$200/month range. I had some decent success building
            statistically sound models to the point where I'm considering
            dumping my DYI toolset and pay for a ready-made solution.
            
            One of the alternatives has an active forum and community that even
            sells subscriptions to the user models. I bet you can tap this for
            your own good. I won't share their names here to avoid crashing
            your launch, but I'm happy to chat over email if you want to learn
            more.
            
            Some of the questions that I'd ask myself before putting my savings
            on autopilot on a system like Enombic are:
            
            1. Where is fundamental and price data sourced from? Is it free
            from survivorship bias? Is it point in time?
            2. Can users backtest/simulate their ideas? How do you help users
            from curve fitting their models?
            
            Anyhow, I'm on the waiting list now and would love to evaluate
            Enombic and give you my feedback.
       
              kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
              Thank you!
              
              Indeed, there's a lot of opportunity cost in building and
              maintaining the tools. If you're interested in investing, you
              probably want to spend your time on investing rather than
              migrating databases all of the time etc.
              
              We're quite interested in learning more around your suggestion.
              If you're comfortable, feel free to ping us at hello [at] enombic
              [dot] com. Would also be happy to chat more about data sources
              and our roadmap.
       
        baron816 wrote 3 days ago:
        I’ve asked on HN before why this exact thing didn’t exist. Now it
        does. Cool to see.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Very glad to hear that. We literally built this because we wanted it
          to exist!
       
        frenchie4111 wrote 3 days ago:
        Does it/are there plans to support options?
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks for asking. Not in the next few months. We really want to nail
          the UI/UX around stocks and ETFs before we expand our footprint.
       
        vitovito wrote 4 days ago:
        Being able to the see the components is a great start, but one of the
        things we've been unable to easily do in our own trackers is
        dynamically remove particular stocks to see how much someone's
        portfolio growth is relying on e.g. TSLA.  Any plans for that?
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          We're really interested in making the index editing dynamic. E.g. as
          you modify the weights, all metrics update in real time.
          
          Additionally, we're interested in side-by-side comparisons as well,
          similar to a code "diff" on Github. So you can see how your
          modifications changed performance relative to a past version.
          
          We'd love to get your feedback on this. If you have more thoughts,
          feel free to reach us at hello [at] enombic [dot] com
       
        nirushiv wrote 4 days ago:
        This looks awesome! Congrats on the launch.
        For a financial product like this, what does your tech stack look like?
        Do you use off the shelf databases to store account balances for
        example, or is there specialized tech for that? or does the brokerage
        handle that?
        
        How do you approach security? I’m guessing a lot of work went into
        it, but some details would be great for a curious customer like me :)
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Hey, thanks for taking a look! Great questions, we take security and
          data seriously. All communication is encrypted end to end (of
          course), but we also ensure data at rest is encrypted, using KMS &
          RDS.
          
          Brokerages handle your account based information, but we generate
          additional data around your investments to help give you a richer
          picture into your portfolio performance.
          
          One particularly fun part of our data structures is the indexes
          themselves, which are all nest-able and fully versioned, creating a
          rich graph of historical performance data. Looking forward to
          exposing more features around this in the future.
          
          Our tech stack is react, nextjs, swr, python, aiohttp, redis,
          postgres (& timescaledb), k8s, terraform, aws.
       
            kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
            timescaledb <3
       
        atlasunshrugged wrote 4 days ago:
        I love this idea and really dug Motif Investing back in the day
        (although charging for trades made it hard when weighing that vs.
        Robinhood)
       
          aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks! Yeah we were recently pointed to Motif by some of our early
          users. Have loved seeing their enthusiasm for it, hoping we can
          provide a great experience as well.
       
            atlasunshrugged wrote 2 days ago:
            Awesome, I signed up to be a user and can't wait to check it out!
       
            ublaze wrote 3 days ago:
            It was really sad to see Motif shut down. That service was awesome.
            It's made me wary of trying new services for this, since their
            shutdown led to a bunch of shuttling around of portfolios from
            different, much worse services (Folio, finally Interactive
            Brokers).
       
        divyahansg wrote 4 days ago:
        Awesome, would love to use this. How are you thinking about rebalancing
        and its tax implications?
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Great to hear! Thanks!
          
          We are exploring a few different models for rebalancing. One is to
          rebalance with new contributions only, another would be rebalancing
          with each investing (through both buying and selling), and the third
          would be a more tax-aware rebalancing where it only happens quarterly
          or annually (perhaps after you've locked in long term capital gains).
          
          Since we lean prosumer / DIY platform, we feel like perhaps we should
          support a few models. Curious which you'd prefer?
       
        Ntrails wrote 4 days ago:
        Rebranding stock picking as "index construction" is really quite
        disingenuous.
        
        I guess you're encouraging somewhat diversified stock picking, but
        honestly I'm dubious this is a 'good' idea for expected outcomes.
       
          smabie wrote 3 days ago:
          What's the difference? 
          answer: nothing. Passive  investing doesn't exist. Everything is
          active
       
          YuriNiyazov wrote 3 days ago:
          If you read Matt Levine's money stuff: a new favorite thing amongst
          financial products (currently only available to hedge funds, but on
          its way to becoming retail) is the following:
          
          The default investment should be "the diversified market portfolio",
          e.g. S&P500. Then, if you have opinions (especially negative ones)
          about companies (e.g. if you are a perennial Tesla bear), you want to
          invest against those companies. A regular way to do that is to short.
          Shorting is hard and expensive for retail. A better way to do it is
          to buy everything in the S&P500 except TSLA. The way to do this is to
          construct a custom index that is identical to S&P500, except that
          TSLA is removed and all other weights are adjusted accordingly.
       
            Ntrails wrote 3 days ago:
            To be clear, that is active investment 101.  You start by taking a
            portfolio matching your benchmark, then you apply an "overlay"
            which expresses your view.
            
            If you have no views, you match the benchmark (a good start- that's
            what you get judged by!), if your views are good (more x, less y)
            you make your alpha.  Excellent.  If your views are bad, said alpha
            is negative. Sad.  But you probably retain a high Beta to the
            benchmark index.
            
            My view remains that stock picking is bad for the average retail
            investor.  Custom indexes are just stock picking with bells on.
       
              tjs8rj wrote 2 days ago:
              The S&P is stock-picking by that logic.
              
              Rank all the public equities by revenue, select the top 500, then
              weight them by market cap. Sounds pretty arbitrary doesn't it?
              Why not rank by profit? Or weight by years in existence?
       
                Ntrails wrote 2 days ago:
                No, it isn't.  Not clear if you don't understand or you are
                being glib.
                
                Passive investing logic is simple.  You want to invest in
                stocks.  Say you want to invest in the US market.  You want a
                portfolio that represents, to some extent, the market.    How do
                you get that?  There is a benchmark index that weights by "how
                large a proportion of the market is".  That seems pretty sound
                and consistent with the ideal?
                
                The issue at hand is an attempt at rebranding a micromanaged
                portfolio as "index investing" - a term used interchangably
                with passive investing.
                
                I don't mind stock picking.  It is a negative sum game and
                people can play it if they want.  But it is irresponsible imo
                to pretend you are offering something other than what you
                actually are
       
            kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
            A big fan of Matt Levine's thoughts on indexing and how vast
            amounts of passive investing are impacting the markets.
       
          kmckiern wrote 3 days ago:
          Thanks for your feedback!
          
          If you want to stick to more traditional indexing approaches,
          that’s supported. For example, one user has stayed very close to
          VTI, but made some modifications to customize VTI to her goals and
          existing portfolio ( [1] ).
          
          We also have some users who want an easier way to automate their
          investments into a classic Vanguard basket ( [2] ).
          
          Everything on the app is DIY. So, alternatively, if you want to be
          more active, and test a thesis you may have, that’s supported as
          well.
          
   URI    [1]: https://enombic.com/abby/VTI-15
   URI    [2]: https://enombic.com/aml/lazy
       
            autoditype wrote 3 days ago:
            I find that even more disingenous than OP. That first link shows
            the Top 15 picks of the $VTI, but IIRC the $VTI is an index of
            3,000 companies across the whole market. Picking 15 heavy-weight
            stocks is not even the same realm as an index fund.
            
            She weights APPLE at 18.7% while VTI weights VTI weights the top 10
            holdings for a total of 23% of the portfolio.
       
            bww wrote 3 days ago:
            I think OP's concern (which I don't necessarily share, but which I
            think is valid) is that indexes are generally considered to be
            relatively safe investments but if you're personally choosing the
            securities in the "index" you're essentially just choosing
            individual stocks, which is generally considered to be a bad idea
            for most people.
            
            So it could be argued that you're essentially presenting choosing
            individual stocks, a highly risky investment strategy, as index
            funds, a different, much more conservative kind of investment.
       
              doggosphere wrote 3 days ago:
              Who cares? We put warning labels on cigarettes, we even tax them
              to offset the social cost of the badness of them. But we still
              have the freedom to consume them if we so choose.
              
              Risky investments are the same. We don't need overbearing
              protectionist policies other than to ensure people aren't being
              outright cheated/scammed.
              
              If the kids want to YOLO GME, who are we to say otherwise.
       
        TuringNYC wrote 4 days ago:
        >>We would love your feedback on what we've built so far.
        
        Id love to provide feedback, but it seems i'm waitlisted when I sign
        up. Is there a HN-skip-the-queue?
       
          kmckiern wrote 4 days ago:
          Awesome! Definitely, didn't call this out explicitly in our post but
          anyone who joins the waitlist today will be expedited.
       
            sheep-a wrote 3 days ago:
            Cool just signed up and same issue, unauthorized when I try log in
       
              aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
              Hey, thanks for checking us out! If you submit to join the
              waitlist, we'll prioritize you in the queue. Attempting to sign
              up or login in at this time will just route you back to the
              landing page. It's not a very clear UX at the moment, thanks for
              reporting it.
       
        CrackpotGonzo wrote 4 days ago:
        Love this! Do updates to the ETF push out to anyone invested, or do
        individuals have to rebalance if weighting changes happen to the
        original?
       
          kmckiern wrote 4 days ago:
          Thank you!
          
          Right now each index will track the latest version by default but
          we're thinking through something similar to version pinning with
          software dependencies. E.g., something like jdoe-index-0==v2
       
        endisneigh wrote 4 days ago:
        Oh god it'll be amazing once /r/wallstreetbets gets their hands on
        this. The $WLSTRBETS custom ticker will definitely go to the moon. I
        would suggest maybe putting more info on the landing page.
        
        Are you a brokerage or is this something that can hook into your
        existing brokerage? The latter would be awesome.
       
          aliquotchris wrote 4 days ago:
          Thanks! Yes we're looking forward to getting more content on the
          landing page soon. For now, all the links above are public pages, so
          you can explore those to see some of our features.
          
          We are currently the latter; we're powered by existing brokerages,
          but are working to become our own.
       
            alexeldeib wrote 3 days ago:
            Would you consider expanding into e.g. derivatives?
            
            I was thinking a lot about this idea lately. An
            API/programmatic-first brokerage/trading platform. Let people
            design automated trading strategies on top of solid APIs, and use
            your site for visualization/planning. OptionAlpha seems to get into
            this but not nearly far enough. Latency wouldn't be critical either
            for retail investing.
            
            I don't really understand why it doesn't exist. IB is probably the
            closest well known broker. There are some other smaller ones with
            better APIs.
       
              aliquotchris wrote 3 days ago:
              Hey, thanks for checking us out. We want to get the UX right
              first with our existing feature set, and then consider expanding
              to more advanced things such as derivatives or options. We'll
              keep your request in mind!
              
              Also agree, re: API tooling. We'd love to find folks who want to
              write code against our API. Is that something you'd use?
       
                alexeldeib wrote 3 days ago:
                > API tooling. We'd love to find folks who want to write code
                against our API. Is that something you'd use?
                
                That's definitely what I'm thinking. There are so many tools
                out there to visualize strategies, profit/loss, scanners for
                various properties like IV, open interest, volume, etc in the
                case of options. But very few platforms go to the next level
                and provide good APIs to manipulate. It would be extremely
                impressive to offer both data and trade execution via modern
                APIs. I've wondered if that's an untapped market, or else why
                someone hasn't jumped on it :)
       
                  rezbull wrote 3 days ago:
                  Alpaca does a decent job on the API front
                  
   URI            [1]: https://alpaca.markets/
       
                    alexeldeib wrote 3 days ago:
                    Alpaca was top of mind in the smaller group after IB :)
                    They seem really neat!
       
            alex-wallish wrote 4 days ago:
            What brokerages do currently work with?
       
       
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