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                                                             on Gopher (inofficial)
   URI Visit Hacker News on the Web
   URI   Protest note about user privacy changes by Reddit
        CodeArtisan wrote 2 days ago:
        I rarely post on reddit, thus i only browse it through teddit now which
        is also much friendlier to mobile.
   URI  [1]: https://teddit.net/about
        paulcole wrote 2 days ago:
        GDPR reminds me a lot of HIPAA.
        Sounds good on paper, rarely enforced as strongly as the layperson
        believes. Occasionally used to make an example of a huge company that
        can afford the slap on the wrist.
        Just think about it. Would companies break the regulations as wantonly
        as they do if the risk and stakes were truly as high as we like to
          SkyPuncher wrote 2 days ago:
          HIPAA definitely has a huge influence on security of medical
          Smaller practice tend to be less stringent in following it, but big
          institution tend to be scared or getting hot with a violation .
          krageon wrote 2 days ago:
          You're just preaching american exceptionalism. The companies wantonly
          ignoring it (or applying a ton of dark patterns to it) are the same
          ones that have always been exploiting you in the vilest ways they
          can. In other words, it has nothing to do with the legislation (which
          to answer your question has in fact had a very large impact).
        coopreme wrote 2 days ago:
        old.Reddit.com     Still can’t stand the new ui
          dt3ft wrote 2 days ago:
          Care to take a guess how much longer this will be around? :)
            post_break wrote 2 days ago:
            The day that is removed is the day I'm done with reddit. Just like
        ryanwhitney wrote 2 days ago:
        They want our data badly.
        I primarily browse on mobile, in a private window, without an account.
        For this, i am faced with constant banners and pop-ups to try and get
        me into the mobile app, which i'm told is "the best way to experience
        reddit". (It's not.)
        Being logged in is an annoyance as it gives me a blank landing page
        that's an extra click away from the main "popular" page.
        "New reddit" has brought some nice UI improvements, but their design
        team is choosing some absolutely miserable paths in the name of data
        Can't even expand most comment threads on mobile these days without
        logging in. Worse than most news sites.
          boring_twenties wrote 2 days ago:
          Why would you subject yourself to this when there are multiple FOSS
          reddit mobile apps available?
          rvba wrote 2 days ago:
          i.reddit.com is still the best reddit
          dt3ft wrote 2 days ago:
          The main reason why anyone would want you to use their App is your
          likely inability to block ads (unless you block them at network
          level, that is). Sure, logging your behavior while using the App is a
          nice to have component as well, but the best way to serve ads and
          make sure they are seen by majority of users, is by having the user
          not use a browser.
          I'm working on 20-things.com, my alternative to reddit, still in the
          making. I use it as a personal public bookmarking service, posting
          things I find interesting/worth sharing. This does not scale well
          since large userbase have large operating costs, so my plan is rather
          simple: keep it small and closed, periodically opening it up for new
          users as others leave.
          But how will it make money? It won't, and that's ok.
            krageon wrote 2 days ago:
            > large userbase have large operating costs
            You can scale a single sqlite db to millions of users without too
            much trouble. The "large operating costs" meme primarily arose due
            to the atrociously large costs big cloud providers will make you
            pay for moderate traffic. It's not helped by the cargo cult of
            scalability, which strongly pushes you to use something shardable
            when in all but the most extraordinary cases the dumbest solution
            will keep working long beyond what's expected.
            zelon88 wrote 2 days ago:
            This is pretty neat looking. I am really digging the UI.
            Would you ever consider making this open-source? It would be a
            great addition to the Awesome-Selfhosted list. [1]
   URI      [1]: https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted
              dt3ft wrote 2 days ago:
              Thank you, that means a lot! :)
              I plan to publish the source code with step by step instructions
              on how to build and host your own instance. Publishing the source
              will require some cleanup/preparation, I'll get to it as soon as
              possible. I never really thought that someone would even want to
              look at the source xD
              It's nothing fancy, really, and every library used is noted on
              the about page[1], as well as third party services such as the
              one used to transmit SMS for account verification.
   URI        [1]: https://20-things.com/about
          tootahe45 wrote 2 days ago:
          My experience on mobile is that after viewing a subreddit a number of
          times on chrome it just blocks you and forces you to download the app
          to view any posts at all. This can be bypassed by using
          old.reddit.com url.
          2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote 2 days ago:
          As a new year's resolution I've blocked reddit on my pihole and life
          has been better.
          If I search for something and the result is a reddit post I'll turn
          on the vpn, view the result, and close it. The site is run by shills,
          advertisers, bad actors, agitators, and toxic people.
            optimalsolver wrote 2 days ago:
            OK, so you still use Reddit?
              2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote 2 days ago:
              Yeah, the same way that I use a dictionary.
          patrickk wrote 2 days ago:
          I disagree strongly that new reddit brings improvements.
          For example cutting off the comment section under an article after
          just a few comments and forcing 'related' articles into your feed is
          a terrible user experience. Its designed only to keep you on the site
          and click more for more ad revenue.
            heroprotagonist wrote 2 days ago:
            I agree about disliking new reddit.
            I use Redirector extension for Firefox with a rule to always send
            me to the old version of reddit when following a link:
              https://www.reddit.com/bob → https://old.reddit.com/bob
              vondur wrote 2 days ago:
              I wonder how long before they kill the old site off?
                _-david-_ wrote 2 days ago:
                They still have i.reddit.com so that is a good sign.
            esperent wrote 2 days ago:
            That only happens if you're not logged in. So it's a dark pattern
            designed to frustrate you into logging in.
            ryanwhitney wrote 2 days ago:
            > some nice UI improvements
            Their responsive mobile design is for the most part, pretty good.
            It's a huge upgrade from the past when there was absolutely no
            mobile optimization. :)
            Agreed on that though, there's so so many dark patterns that have
            come along with it.
            The latest bummer for me was seeing usernames disappear from the
            landing page on mobile. Who cares about users anyways, not like
            they've ever contributed anything to the site…
              hddu wrote 2 days ago:
              >Their responsive mobile design is for the most part, pretty
              good. It's a huge upgrade from the past when there was absolutely
              no mobile optimization. :)
              I know this has been around for at least 5 years.
   URI        [1]: https://www.reddit.com/.compact
                AlexandrB wrote 2 days ago:
                Having only learned of .compact recently, I was shocked by how
                fast and mobile-friendly it is. "Reddit mobile" is a
                monstrosity by comparison. Why does it seem like mobile sites
                have regressed in the past 5 years?
                  Majromax wrote 2 days ago:
                  Because they have.  Mobile designers are less focused on
                  optimizing for poor processors and limited data budgets,
                  instead preferring to target "responsive" and/or flashy
                  designs that look impressive in screenshots.
              AlchemistCamp wrote 2 days ago:
              > It's a huge upgrade from the past when there was absolutely no
              mobile optimization. :)
              I preferred it then, especially when browsing from my mobile
              device! It used to be very easy to get the zoom I wanted just by
              tapping on my ipod touch. Now, it's both wasteful of space and
              cluttered with a bunch of things I don't want. It's become harder
              and harder to skim the feed.
                SilasX wrote 2 days ago:
                I still prefer Reddit desktop on mobile, but double tapping
                doesn’t work consistently on iOS anymore.
              ewindal wrote 2 days ago:
              > It's a huge upgrade from the past when there was absolutely no
              mobile optimization.
              It’s not. They went in trying to make a mobile first
              experience, and somehow made it worse than a desktop first
              experience browsed on mobile. Base reddit works fine on mobile.
              The redesign is absolutely trash, bloated, slow and ugly.
        tobr wrote 2 days ago:
        > Create an account to continue
        > By continuing, you agree to our User Agreement and Privacy Policy.
        Can’t even read the protest without subjecting myself to what is
        supposedly being protested.
          beervirus wrote 2 days ago:
           [1] Try using the old interface instead of the shitty new one.
   URI    [1]: https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ls7ft8/protest_note...
            hnarn wrote 2 days ago:
            Or replace "reddit.com" with "teddit.net":
   URI      [1]: https://teddit.net/r/europe/comments/ls7ft8/protest_note_a...
              nitrohorse wrote 2 days ago:
              Also available is Libreddit (another open-source front end). [1]
   URI        [1]: https://libredd.it/r/europe/comments/ls7ft8/protest_note...
   URI        [2]: https://github.com/spikecodes/libreddit
          hnarn wrote 2 days ago:
          While perhaps somewhat ironic, this is only because the person who
          wrote the text elected to self-post it to Reddit itself. If they had
          posted a link to a blog post or similar (which arguably is kind of
          what Reddit is for), this wouldn’t be an issue.
            kevincox wrote 2 days ago:
            Reddit hasn't been about sharing links for some time now. They
            added image and video hosting and some subreddits disallow linking
            to third parties. So instead of linking to the source it is all
            reuploads or screenshots of tweets. It's quite sad actually. Also
            probably copyright infringement in a huge number of cases.
            Probably good for reddit though. Now instead of people following
            the sources they stick around on reddit hoping to see it again.
        rognjen wrote 2 days ago:
        Protest all you want. But if you keep using it your protests carry
        little weight.
        Stop using it.
        And report a GDPR violation.
        sagolikasoppor wrote 2 days ago:
        I used to be on reddit all the time, but I got banned and several of
        the subs I followed were either quarantined or banned.
        Reddit used to be all about free speech and grass root movements but
        now its all about chineese money and mainstream opinions. Most subs are
        controlled by the same users and any controversial opinion will get you
        They even implemented thought crimes, that is upvoting the wrong thing
        can give you a ban. Reddit has become a really shitty website with spam
        ads for their mobile app.
          pavel_lishin wrote 2 days ago:
          > They even implemented thought crimes, that is upvoting the wrong
          thing can give you a ban.
          [citation needed]
            Hitton wrote 2 days ago:
   URI      [1]: https://gizmodo.com/reddit-will-start-to-punish-users-for-...
              pavel_lishin wrote 2 days ago:
              Dang, good citation. I will point out though, that this appears
              to only apply to already-quarantined communities:
              > When we expanded our quarantine policy, we created an appeals
              process for sanctioned communities. One of the goals was to
              “force subscribers to reconsider their behavior and incentivize
              moderators to make changes.” While the policy attempted to hold
              moderators more accountable for enforcing healthier rules and
              norms, it didn’t address the role that each member plays in the
              health of their community.
              > Today, we’re making an update to address this gap: Users who
              consistently upvote policy-breaking content within quarantined
              communities will receive automated warnings, followed by further
              consequences like a temporary or permanent suspension. We hope
              this will encourage healthier behavior across these communities.
              Quarantined communities are already basically on probation for
              flagrantly violating policies. This does not apply globally.
          orf wrote 2 days ago:
          Which subreddits that you followed got quarantined or banned?
            krageon wrote 2 days ago:
            Child porn and nazis, generally the two categories that get that
              dt3ft wrote 2 days ago:
              There's a whole list[1] of banned subreddits...
   URI        [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_commu...
        mjfl wrote 2 days ago:
        They should require facebook login just to troll people... it may even
        be profitable!
        Seems reddit is dead. Not dead in the sense that it has no users, but
        that the original user base has been alienated from it and has been
        supplanted by a profitable horde of "normies". Does anyone disagree?
          rvba wrote 2 days ago:
          I came here from reddit because it got "too big" and full of simple
          people. Most communities became picture based, shallow, repetitive
          and uninspiring.
          Often the text based articles end where they should start (this is a
          general problem that also touches the press), so you learn nothing.
          Then you see the same 10-20 repetitive factoid comments. (BTW. what a
          pity there is no more the "reddit frame")
          With the inflow of simps reddit is becoming incredibly anti
          intelectual: ask for sources? Get downvoted. Write long paragraph of
          gibberish? Get upvoted.
          Many people lament that /r/funny is not funny (I think it never was),
          /r/news is full of paid shills... but problem is that the site now
          caters to the lowest common denominator. 
          Pictures everywhere. Compare /r/unitedkingdom (which banned pictures)
          with /r/Ireland (which didnt). And yes, I am aware that each
          community had own mods who generally are quite random people. But the
          New redesign is there to puść more pictures.
          Askreddit mods did not want to receive reports so they straight out
          banned opening comment boxes in their subreddit. This leads to
          uninspiritng questions and constant repetition.
          There are still some communities like /r/truereddit or /r/longreads
          (plus some niche heavily moderated subreďdits) but most mainstream
          is incredibly dull.
          Sometimes I look on digg - and even this corpse of a website seems to
          have more interesting stuff than reddit.
          Also new reddit just sucks. Once they disable i.reddit / old.reddit
          the site will become even worse: they don't want intelligent users
          who can have some sort of a discussion. They want as many users as
          possible. Because websites should grow like tumors...
          Tbh, I mostly wonder now where to go when hacker news dies. The
          process seems to start too.
          edoceo wrote 2 days ago:
          Agree. They are near the top of their S-curve and all the typical
          patterns are playing out.
          MisterTea wrote 2 days ago:
          > Not dead in the sense that it has no users, but that the original
          user base has been alienated from it and has been supplanted by a
          profitable horde of "normies".
          The simple fact that redditors like to be called redditors and call
          others "normies" is a big part of why reddit is a cesspool.
          sweden wrote 2 days ago:
          I have this experience more with HN rather then Reddit. Granted that
          the popular subreddits are quite overloaded with "normies" but I
          still visit lesser know communities that still keep their spirit and
          a solid user base.
          HN on the other hand suffers from having just "one subreddit" and it
          became quite bad over the past years.
            mjfl wrote 2 days ago:
            I consistently have intelligent discussions on HN. Disagreement is
            tolerated and hashed out. This does NOT happen on Reddit now.
            Reddit is unambiguously worse in that aspect.
          RHSeeger wrote 2 days ago:
          I've been using reddit almost daily for years. I am logged in, but
          Istick to the subreddits I find interesting, read only on desktop,
          and use Reddit Enhancement Suite exclusively... so none of the
          problems people seem to constantly complain about impact me.
          74d-fe6-2c6 wrote 2 days ago:
          Reddit is definitely not dead ... I mean, WSB on its own almost took
          down established investment funds. That's not exactly dead. Also many
          other subreddits are very much alive and kicking. It rather seems to
          me that a lot of folks on HN compulsively wish reddit was dead.
            mjfl wrote 2 days ago:
            WSB is one of the last interesting places on Reddit that shows up
            on the front page. I think that's because they've stayed above the
            political fray that has consumed the rest of Reddit.
            That said, you are wrong to suggest that we wish Reddit was dead.
            We just want it to be the same as or better than it was 10 years
            ago. You may be too new to understand.
          tweetle_beetle wrote 2 days ago:
          I'm no Reddit historian, but I would agree and if I was any good at
          data science do some analysis to support it - looking at the usage,
          sentiment and of the word redditor against the growth of the platform
          (specifically the rise of the supermods, political subreddits and
          other people's analysis of bot accounts).
          There used to be this idea that no matter what subreddit you were in,
          ultimately everyone was a redditor and had shared identity at some
          basic level - often self-deprecating sense of apart-ness from the
          mainstream. This community gave rise to the platform-wide schemes
          like the Christmas presents.
          I rarely see the word redditor any more. To me that suggests that the
          shared identity is dead and if that's how you define a community,
          then Reddit is dead too. (Anecdotally I even saw a comment from
          someone saying that it's a stupid word in response to another comment
          just recently.)
          Here's the poor man's version looking at worldwide Google Trends,
          from Reddit's launch to today. It's hard to read too much into it,
          but clearly interest in redditor has in no way kept pace with
          interest in reddit. And interest in redditor appears to be at a low
          point in late 2017 - the end of the sense of community? Major
          investment and value growth happened around this time, with staff
          numbers doubling and a major push on advertising. It took 10 years to
          recover the interest level high (2011-2021), during that same time
          there was an enormous growth of users.
          - redditor - [1] - redditor vs reddit -
   URI    [1]: https://trends.google.co.uk/trends/explore?date=2005-06-23%2...
   URI    [2]: https://trends.google.co.uk/trends/explore?date=2005-06-23%2...
            lasagnaphil wrote 2 days ago:
            I’m no data analyst, but from my experience on various parts of
            the web Reddit is now often viewed as “cringe” and the term
            redditor is often used as a derogatory slur (most prominently seen
            on Twitter, although other sites have similar sentiments) There are
            more than ever people using Reddit, it’s just that the site kinda
            has an image problem and no one really wants to “boast”
            themselves about participating in it.
          swebs wrote 2 days ago:
          I wouldn't consider the new redditors normal. They are highly
          radicalized, highly emotional, highly active on the internet, and
          extremely motivated to ban anyone who dissents. Its exactly the same
          as the Tumblr population before Tumblr died.
            swiley wrote 2 days ago:
            They've optimized for the most impressionable and vulnerable
            It's probably very profitable for an ad driven site but it kills
            the community.
            barry-cotter wrote 2 days ago:
            Tumblr didn’t die, it was killed. Not intentionally but by
            ourlordcaffeine wrote 2 days ago:
            Reddit has a bunch of conspiracy theories flying about, being
            spread by the very people who claim not to be vulnerable to
            conspiracies and misinformation.
            kkoncevicius wrote 2 days ago:
            This was on the top of reddit yesterday: [1] I think this post is a
            good summary of what new reddit has become. Both the content and
            the comments within.
   URI      [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/ls6l5...
              seibelj wrote 2 days ago:
              To be fair, many posts are also about pumping stock in a mediocre
              mall-based video game retailer to get rich quickly.
          oytis wrote 2 days ago:
          As a normie - what was the original user base? I joined a few years
          ago, am subscribed to a couple of niche subreddits, and find the
          thing pretty useful.
            goalieca wrote 2 days ago:
            There were no subreddits. There was a sizeable programmer user base
            that was somewhat academic about Haskell and lisp. I was a grad
            student at the time and I learned a lot about Functional
            programming. I remember  the political discussion was somewhat
            similar to slashdot with Ron Paul and libertarian content sprinkled
            here and there.
              oytis wrote 2 days ago:
              Sounds like a fun place to be too. But still separating political
              discussions from other topics looks like a good idea for me.
            thatguy0900 wrote 2 days ago:
            Niche subreddits more or less are the original users base. As long
            as you stay away from any sub that gets anywhere near the front
            page, and only gets readers who specifically sought that sub out,
            then reddit is still great.
          melomal wrote 2 days ago:
          I tapped out after I realized that I was having an argument with
          someone that was probably no older than 15/16. When you do that you
          quickly ask yourself WTF am I doing here?
            jasonvorhe wrote 2 days ago:
            Are you serious? A lot of my political views have been shaped when
            I debated with adults in the internet at the end of the 90s. Did I
            most likely sound stupid during all these debates retrospectively?
            Definitely. But I suddenly had people to exchange ideas with that
            were non-existent in other kids my age. I no longer felt as
            alienated and I had a place where I felt I was safe in expressing
            my opinions. That was worth so much.
              melomal wrote 2 days ago:
              > had people to exchange ideas with that were non-existent in
              other kids my age.
              This I completely agree with. I've have many hobbies in my early
              years that were considered weird of just not in line with what my
              friends liked. Having a chat to learn more and dig deeper was
              amazing to do.
              But there's debating and then there's just flat out teenager
              responses. I honestly don't mind having a debate or conversation
              but the lack of insight and knowledge only provides you with
              lacklustre meme attacks.
              secondcoming wrote 2 days ago:
              On reddit today there is no room for political debate. it's just
              'accept the views of the subreddit or be banned'
                amanaplanacanal wrote 2 days ago:
                Are there any good places for political debate online? They
                seem to be universally terrible to me. It may be that
                reasonable political debate can only be done in person.
                  melomal wrote 2 days ago:
                  Sometimes text lacks the context that we need to feel and see
                  as humans. IMO debates and discussions via chat will always
                  be terrible. People misread texts all the time assuming it
                  was said in a way that was meant to be insulting.
                  Once we can manage our emotions and misinterpretation of text
                  then we can start debating in a healthy fashion.
              ppf wrote 2 days ago:
              That is a very interesting point. I have specifically stayed
              longer on various platforms, because I really did feel that I had
              an interesting and more mature point of view that the clearly
              younger (and immature) general populace of those platforms might
              not otherwise see.
              However, it's tough going, against the relentless reddit
              meme-spam and nitpickers who only care about being right instead
              of discussing ideas. I have now quit all other forms of social
              media except HN, and is a truly sad state of affairs that a large
              part of a generation has isolated itself from discussing and
              developing ideas, as they are sucked in by the addictive and
              shallow nature of social media.
              Thanks for nothing, big tech.
                melomal wrote 2 days ago:
                > reddit meme-spam and nitpickers
                8 years of basically no engagement from me (maybe 30 karma
                points) I call someone out and bam I'm getting downvoted to
                kingdom come but at the same time being gilded with silver. It
                just didn't make sense.
                HN has so far been nothing but amazing conversations and it
                will hopefully stay like this. Big Tech played the PR game and
                won, PR is what makes a unicorn startup not so much the
                startup's product these days.
                  SketchySeaBeast wrote 2 days ago:
                  > I call someone out and bam I'm getting downvoted to kingdom
                  come but at the same time being gilded with silver. It just
                  didn't make sense.
                  That tells me that there's both sides reading it, just one is
                  larger.  Isn't the goal to preventing an echo chamber having
                  both sides expressing themselves?
                    melomal wrote 2 days ago:
                    For sure I agree, I just tried to check my Reddit account
                    and it has now been suspended due to some activity so that
                    I could find the comment.
                    Unfortunately I cannot find it but ultimately it was not a
                    debate, it was a classic teen response 'yeah but what have
                    you done about it?!!?'. No value add and definitely nothing
                    worth replying with.
          suby wrote 2 days ago:
          I've also been on reddit since before the major digg exodus. I did
          start out on digg, though. The thing which drove me to reddit in the
          first place was better conversations and a relative lack of memes.
          By better conversations, it's somewhat hard to quantify but I think
          if you were to use a tool to analyse the reading level of an
          aggregate of posts on digg compared that to reddit, the reading level
          for reddit would have been higher.
          By lack of memes, memes weren't really as we think of them today.
          Digg was however filled with people posting ascii art in the comments
          because that was oh so hilarious /s. A common one was this, [1] ,
          which I think is enough said. That behavior used to be downvoted into
          oblivion on reddit.
          Reddit isn't quite as bad as digg was, I'd say, but only because you
          can filter out a lot of the nonsense by curating what subreddits
          you're on.
          I've been looking for alternatives but it's not promising. The
          pattern so far has been for reddit to ban toxic subreddits, which
          then causes a flood of people into these nascent sites. Because
          they're small communities the culture of the toxic refugees quickly
          overwhelms the sites, which have tended to be built on the principles
          of free speech and anti censorship.
          Voat and Ruqqus are both good examples of this. I was an early member
          of both. They start out with a good group of people, and then
          devolved into far right extremist insanity. You can pick a random
          thread on either one of these sites and chances are good that someone
          will be complaining about black or jewish people in not so nice
          terms. It doesn't even matter what the topic is, that's what you're
          likely to find.
          I used to think that anti moderation was a good stance to have, but I
          don't think you can get such a site off the ground today without
          using a heavy hand. If you don't, you're going to sink into a well of
          toxicity which is impossible to escape from. Smart people are
          attracted to smart people, toxic people are attracted to toxic
          So I'm still on reddit. Like another commenter said though, if
          old.reddit.com stops working I think I'm done.
   URI    [1]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pedobear
          Cthulhu_ wrote 2 days ago:
          Insert obligatory Eternal September reference here.
          I'm just there for the distractions and cat pictures.
            bregma wrote 2 days ago:
            Unfortunately all the distractions seem to have moved to onlyfans.
          beckman466 wrote 2 days ago:
          > the original user base has been alienated from it and has been
          supplanted by a profitable horde of "normies". Does anyone disagree?
          Why the gatekeeping? What’s the point?
            wtf_is_up wrote 2 days ago:
            What's wrong with gatekeeping?
              SiempreViernes wrote 2 days ago:
              That it severely limits new influences, because gatekeeping is
              usually taken to mean contend moderation on "we only accept more
              of what's already inside" style principles.
                arkadiytehgraet wrote 2 days ago:
                So what's wrong with that?
                  wccrawford wrote 2 days ago:
                  There are a lot of people these days that believe everyone
                  should be included in every group, unless it's their own
                  special group which is a special exception to that rule.
            DyslexicAtheist wrote 2 days ago:
            > What’s the point?
            to keep the noise ratio at a bearable level? I'm not against
            gatekeeping but the way it is done needs to be transparent and
            those at the gate must have the right experience/background
            otherwise it's just grandstanding by mods and high-karma accounts
            that have no qualification other than having been there first (and
            perhaps louder than others).
          secondcoming wrote 2 days ago:
          It's not dead, you just grew up.
          frongpik wrote 2 days ago:
          One day I was so frustrated with silly stuff on the reddit frontpage
          that I started nuking memes/funny/etc. posts with uBO as if they were
          ads. The problem was that I ended up with an empty front page.
          esoterica wrote 2 days ago:
          As someone who remembers Ron Paul 2008 mania and the narwhal bacon
          nonsense I think I like the normies more.
            BLKNSLVR wrote 2 days ago:
            As someone who remembers goatse, lemon party, and rotten.com, I
            think I'm happier with my kids growing up with narwal bacon and
            Nyan cat.
            mjfl wrote 2 days ago:
            Sure it's a cringey joke, but I only encountered the narwhal bacon
            thing as an offhand sarcastic reference like 10 years ago and it
            definitely wasn't representative of what reddit was to me. Though I
            will give you that "advice animals" were cringey always.
            As for the Ron Paul mania, there were definitely pro-Obama posts as
            well. And I definitely don't prefer the current censorship enforced
            user-the-name wrote 2 days ago:
            Abso-fucking-lutely. Reddit used to be utterly insufferable.
            tinus_hn wrote 2 days ago:
            ‘Toilet paper upwards lolololol’
          yurielt wrote 2 days ago:
          Independently of what I think about  4chan  the main reason you keep
          nasty people around is because at least they will repel the normies
          to a degree resistors wanted a hugbox so they got the logical
          conclusion of the environment they fostered, they could have gone to
          voat but they didn’t want to do that so...
            tt433 wrote 2 days ago:
            So nice you posted it twice?
          martin_a wrote 2 days ago:
          > the original user base has been alienated
          Facebook also was cooler when my mom wasn't on it. ;-)
            bregma wrote 2 days ago:
            Yeah, all my kids stopped using facebook when my mom got on it too.
            mjfl wrote 2 days ago:
            the funny thing is my mom is actually on Reddit.
          gman83 wrote 2 days ago:
          I mean, I've been using reddit since before all the people who
          escaped digg joined. There's just not really a good alternative. The
          main thing is to quit all the default subreddits and only join the
          specialty subreddits you're interested in, it's not that bad. A lot
          depends on how the subreddits are moderated. A good mod team goes a
          long way.
            elhudy wrote 2 days ago:
            I used to think this was true.    'Specialty subreddits' are
            seemingly fantastic for starting into new hobbies or trying to
            learn basic information on a topic.  But as I've become more and
            more involved in a number of my hobbies, I've realized much of the
            info in these subreddits is only accurate at the surface-level,
            arises repeatedly over time, and has no real legitimacy.
            Even in specialty subreddits, folks take upvotes for legitimacy. 
            When questions are repeated over time, answers are regurgitated
            paraphrasing of what has upvoted in the past.  You end up with this
            vicious cycle of hivemind thinking that is difficult to introduce
            new or alternative viewpoints to - because people don't upvote what
            they don't already believe to be true.
            dorfsmay wrote 2 days ago:
            And use old.reddit.com instead of www.
              jjgreen wrote 2 days ago:
              ... or libreddit via privacy-redirect
   URI        [1]: https://github.com/SimonBrazell/privacy-redirect
            BelenusMordred wrote 2 days ago:
            > There's just not really a good alternative.
            There's plenty of clones that work perfectly fine, comments like
            this come across as Stockholm syndrome. If a sub made a half-assed
            collective decision to move it would be simple to do so. If all the
            mods left for greener pastures it would become a wasteland within
            Lobsters, Tildes, Ruqqus, etc.
            rkangel wrote 2 days ago:
            I agree - Reddit is a broad enough userbase that any one
            characterisation is incomplete. If you choose your communities,
            Reddit is still an excellent place.
            DyslexicAtheist wrote 2 days ago:
            for infosec and privacy topics reddit is shockingly bad even for a
            "specialist niche". not that toxicity is rare in these domains, but
            quality all stands and fails with the moderators. (who all are
            self-anointed "subject matter experts" with very big egos)
              dmhmr wrote 2 days ago:
              I unsubscribed from most of the infosec stuff on Reddit since it
              has low engagement, low quality posts in most subs. It seems the
              community thrives outside of reddit in smaller, more niche
              circles. Majority of my contacts/education comes from natural
              networking by just doing my job.
              pram wrote 2 days ago:
              The tech oriented subreddits are virtually useless. It’s either
              extremely entry level discussion or people shilling their blog or
              product. If HN disappeared idk where I’d go for actual
              information lol
              popeathlete wrote 2 days ago:
              This so much. They'll ban you forever for a brain fart without
              blinking once. Unfortunate how many of these subs are frequented
              by actual professionals you can learn much from.
              alickz wrote 2 days ago:
              Also I don't think Reddit's design incentivises thoughtful or
              interesting discourse. The upvote/downvote system turns every
              thread into a popularity contest.
              You don't get upvotes for asking interesting questions, or
              providing a niche/novel viewpoint. You get upvotes for answering
              leading questions with utter conviction, (whether you are correct
              or not) and generating emotional responses, usually outrage
              (whether deserved or not).
              I am very disillusioned with Reddit at this stage.
                technofiend wrote 2 days ago:
                >You get upvotes for answering leading questions with utter
                conviction, (whether you are correct or not) and generating
                emotional responses, usually outrage (whether deserved or not).
                I miss slashdot's moderation system that was more nuanced: you
                could classify comments into a few buckets.  Unfortunately
                reddit is so heavily gamed by people who want karma for profit
                that moderation and meta-moderation would be gamed as well. 
                Not to mention people who troll simply to troll or advance a
                viewpoint or political agenda. I generally stay out of the main
                subreddits because there's just no point in interacting with
                people there any more.
                There is some value in niche subreddits (which I won't mention
                here) but once they become "too" popular it draws the wrong
                sort of attention and they too lose utility.
                Edit: Oh yeah, if someone would like to invite me to lobste.rs,
                please e-mail me at my username @ yahoo.
                fluidcruft wrote 2 days ago:
                The problem is thinking that upvotes mean anything. If your
                goal is to have interesting conversations, then getting replies
                are maybe what you should value. But focus on conversations
                starts with how you approach the convo.
                Generally that means focusing on the OP. If the OP is some
                short burp of a statement, the OP isn't there for conversation
                so the entire thread is a waste of time. Then secondly you can
                wait a day or so for the up/down locusts to have passed on. OPs
                who were genuinely interested in discussion will reply a few
                days later.
                Mordisquitos wrote 2 days ago:
                > The upvote/downvote system turns every thread into a
                popularity contest.
                Agreed. I've been experimenting lately with ordering all
                threads by "old" by default and using CSS rules to hide comment
                points. It can make things much more interesting, as all you
                see are people talking in chronological order, and screw the
                fake point popularity contest. My next step might be hiding the
                age of each comment (or obfuscating it when <1 day), so I stop
                overfocusing on recent comments and stop thinking "I would like
                to reply to this, but the comment is 17 hours old so
                  ryandrake wrote 2 days ago:
                  Every voting system on the Internet, from discussion forums
                  to product reviews seems to confuse popularity with quality,
                  rewarding one as if it were the other. You can crowdsource
                  popularity but not quality.
                  fluidcruft wrote 2 days ago:
                  I find controversial often works better than old. Also,
                  reddit has a comment sort preference, you can just set it.
                  But reddit has like three preference interfaces on different
                  domains so I can't remember where it is. ;)
                  alickz wrote 2 days ago:
                  That's a cool idea. I've also been put off from replying to
                  older comments. The chronological thing is also interesting
                  as it's a lot more like the forums of old, which I grew up
                  on. Definitely a different experience from the algorithm
                  heavy forums of today. Better of worse I can't say.
                  Some subreddits hide the vote count for X amount of minutes,
                  which I also like. It doesn't stop the algorithm but it helps
                  prevent dogpiling on popular comments.
                bananaface wrote 2 days ago:
                This is also a problem with Hacker News imo, it's just a lot
                less obvious. Most HN comments are not worth their weight
                because the system rewards power posters who know how to post
                over people who are concise, successful and busy.
                I'd argue upvote systems in general dominate the world of tech
                discussion to the degree that some of these reddit mechanisms
                end up driving aspects of the industry.
                  alickz wrote 2 days ago:
                  I agree, while I think HN is better I also think it's a
                  difference in scale, not a night and day difference.
                  Your point about people who "know how to post" is very
                  interesting, as on Reddit I've noticed there's a certain
                  style, or phrasing, of comment that tends to get upvoted
                  more, which leads to a lot of comments having similar style
                  and rhetoric in my experience.
                  >I'd argue upvote systems in general dominate the world of
                  tech discussion to the degree that some of these reddit
                  mechanisms end up driving aspects of the industry.
                  Oh yeah definitely, at this point there's no social media
                  giant without an upvote system. Would a strictly
                  chronological forum, like the forums of old, be better
                  though? I don't know.
                    bananaface wrote 2 days ago:
                    I've noticed that Reddit thing too. It's super weird, and
                    it's a really grating style. I think one corollary on HN is
                    overwriting. Comments do better when they're fluffed.
                    I think a reputation-based system (in the sense of real
                    reputations, not virtual points) could work. I think it's
                    happening in some places. People like Jon Blow, George Hotz
                    & Handmade Hero smoke the competition when they stream on
                    Twitch, and their currency is respect.
                    The best part of respect-based attention is people who know
                    their shit are able to speak against the zeitgeist, without
                    putting in much effort. That's the biiiig problem I have
                    with upvote systems. It's not so much that they encourage
                    groupthink, it's that they don't present reputation. Every
                    post has to stand on its own merits, which is nice in
                    theory, but in practice it means very experienced (and thus
                    busy) people can't just state their opinion, they have to
                    make an argument, so they end up not interacting full stop.
                mschuster91 wrote 2 days ago:
                The same mechanisms apply here though, with the tiny difference
                of HN being small and niche enough to keep most of the general
                population lunacy out so that the mod(s) don't get overwhelmed.
                  Shivetya wrote 2 days ago:
                  Small enough that HN does not attract attention of PACs who
                  have basically co opted many of the political related subs on
                  reddit. simple email blasts each morning and alerts through
                  the day to get people to vote on stories and boost specific
                  posters. Can also target people to report or poison a sub
                  people don't understand how much of what they read on reddit
                  is actively managed by people who want the message
                  controlled. This is the same for any popular social media
                  site with twitter being the top of the heap
                  just be glad that HN isn't that important to where the issue
                  becomes observable (we get enough indirect political tripe as
                  it is with submissions)
                    mschuster91 wrote 2 days ago:
                    HN also isn't a space that's dedicated to politics, and
                    when topics do come up the crowd seems mostly "free-market,
                    free speech libertarian"-leaning (although you have a small
                    number of Trumpists as well as socialists like me for some
                    Even if HN were bigger, it wouldn't be worth the attention
                    of PACs and other activists IMO, the HN crowd is not their
                    voter base. For Republicans the tech crowd is too diverse
                    and immigration-friendly, for Democrats... I'd bet a case
                    of beer that many/most of the US people here vote Democrat
                    anyway since the actions of most Republicans run completely
                    against the needs of tech people.
                  alickz wrote 2 days ago:
                  Oh yeah agreed, but I think that tiny difference leads to a
                  noticeably different outcome. The Signal-to-Noise ratio here
                  is more than Reddit, particularly Reddit's popular
                  subreddits. As a result I find myself changing my mind while
                  reading comments here a lot more than I would on Reddit.
                  Also I think dang (and whoever else) is a good mod, which
                  makes a lot of difference.
                  There's also a recency bias, I've been on Reddit for 8 years
                  and HN for ~3. Maybe my disillusionment has yet to come.
                    ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote 2 days ago:
                    I've had some disillusionment with HN, having been on it
                    for 6-7 years. The dialog is mostly cordial and respectful
                    but precisely because of that I'd come to put a lot of
                    faith into the knowledge of the commenters. But I realized
                    a lot of people here talk about things they have only
                    superficial knowledge about (me included, though I've been
                    trying to curb this behaviour) and as a result there is a
                    lot of quackery about, well formulated, respectful quackery
                    but quackery nonetheless. So I try to check the credentials
                    of people when they include them in their profiles before
                    putting too much faith into what they say.
                    Now I'm not trying to disavow HN, it's a really cool place
                    and there are a lot of knowledgable people here with
                    lifetimes of experience in complex subjects but there are
                    also a lot of technical topics where the discourse is
                    clearly inferior to reddit, twitter or even discord.
                    mschuster91 wrote 2 days ago:
                    I've been on HN for over eight years (just noticed it, how
                    time flies by...), no need to worry for recency bias ;)
          King-Aaron wrote 2 days ago:
          Its been that way for at least several years now
          jjbinx007 wrote 2 days ago:
          I joined Reddit 14 years ago and I've hated nearly every change that
          was implemented.
          If Reddit ever gets rid of the old.reddit design then I'm out of
          there for good.
            Peckingjay wrote 2 days ago:
            There's also teddit.net as an alternative less annoying front-end
            to reddit. I hope it keeps working for a long time.
            Mordisquitos wrote 2 days ago:
            Same here, though my user is "only" 12 years old. They can take
            old.reddit.com from my cold, dead hands.
            fdej wrote 2 days ago:
            I don't know why people complain about the new design. It has been
            a very effective cure for my reddit addiction.
              secondcoming wrote 2 days ago:
              It just doesn't work on my old iPad. Why?
                strig wrote 2 days ago:
                I use Apollo in portrait mode on my ipad, works great.
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