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on Gopher (inofficial)
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URI The last crimes of Caravaggio
anurag_pandey wrote 1 day ago:
hacker news is very fast
greenie_beans wrote 2 days ago:
watch derek jarman's 'caravaggio'
huytersd wrote 2 days ago:
Genuinely trying not to be an ass but is it significantly âgayerâ
than Caravaggioâs life actually was?
greenie_beans wrote 2 days ago:
dunno how gay caravaggio's life was, but yes, jarman's depiction is
gay. and great.
Arkhaine_kupo wrote 2 days ago:
Oh the article misses one of the best bits about his lifestyle.
The man run what essentially was a beautiful scam on churches. He was
comissioned to paint saint and virgins. He would use local prostitutes
as models (it is mentioned in the article he was condemed for the
murder of a pimp). So when the paintings were presented to the church,
the locals (and sometimes even the priests) would recognise the models
and there would be some uproar of using the likeness of a streetwalker
to paint the virgin mary. So the painting would get removed and most of
the time a private owner (sometimes higher ups in the church) would buy
them for their personal collection. Too scandalous for the public, but
perfect for my own palace.
There was a very famous incident of this where he painted Mary's death.
Usually this is a very holy moment in Christianity and it's painted as
such. Caravaggio did not. He painted it in a dirty tent, in a very
human way with her passing away. This was Strike One. Secondly he
modeled the death after a famous body that was retrived from the river
in Rome, a girl had drowned and tons of people had seen her lifeless
body be pulled out of the water, and they could now see that same girl
being virgin mary. Strike Two. And the last strike was that the woman
was not any girl, but one of the most famous prostitutes of the city
and one seen very regularly with Caravaggio. Painting your ex gf
prostitute who died unceremonoiously drowned as the holyest figure
outside of christ was a big issue at the time.
The painting however is still gorgeous and would urge anyone travelling
to Paris (in the Louvre) to go see it. Not as "another virgin"
painting, which you will find infinite Madonna paintings in Europe. But
as one of the first paintings not sanctifying her death and as a sad
goodbye from Caravaggio to someone important to him
undebuggable wrote 9 hours 37 min ago:
Burial of St. Lucy in Syracuse is interesting as the painting is
displayed at the original place where it was commissioned, on the way
of his hectic getaway. Ghastly, the context of the painting feels to
be similar to the one you described.
bigfatfrock wrote 2 days ago:
Amazing color to add to this great story, thank you.
Reading your relation, I realized that this intermixing of
"questionable" (at the time) art ended up in religious settings
including bible printings back then, resulting in even worse results.
My first recollection is of the scandalous chapter opening characters
used in some of the earliest KJV printings that results in
bankruptcy/ruination of the press owner/printer due to
royal/religious offense and subsequent punishment!
nerdponx wrote 2 days ago:
Wikipedia tells me that this is also the last major depiction of her
death as death, rather than "assumption", which I find kind of
interesting.
michaelsbradley wrote 2 days ago:
Dormition versus Assumption
URI [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_of_the_Mother_of_G...
hypertexthero wrote 2 days ago:
Here it is:
URI [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Virgin_(Caravaggi...
pluc wrote 2 days ago:
Where in Rome can one find this painting?
Arkhaine_kupo wrote 2 days ago:
Its in Paris, the guy above corrected me. So if you are ever in the
Louvre go and give it a look
plondon514 wrote 2 days ago:
According to Wikipedia the painting is part of the Louvres permanent
collection (Paris)
Arkhaine_kupo wrote 2 days ago:
it is, fixed. I heard about it while travelling on northern Italy,
thought it was still in Italy. Haven't seen it in person, but
something to look forward on my next trip to Paris
thecupisblue wrote 2 days ago:
I always heard about Caravaggio from books and Internet, finding his
paintings "ok, realistic, cool for the time, skilfully made".
Then I saw a few live.
The chiaroscuro theatre of shadow and light, the insane details, the
dynamic of each painting, the mastery it takes to reproduce such art
pieces, it all humbled me as an artist in a way I did not expect. This
man had such an insane talent, vision and skill to produce some of
these paintings, their harshness matching his lifestyle.
If you have a chance to see some of his works in person, go for it, it
will definitely pay off.
Anotheroneagain wrote 2 days ago:
the insane details
Really? I get the exact opposite impression - how little actual
detail there is. It seems it almost completely consists of few thick
brushstrokes, made with insane precision.
The Supper at Emmaus seems to be an exception. It makes me think it
actually isn't his painting.
squeedles wrote 2 days ago:
Had to make an account just to reply that I had a similar experience
with Thomas Cole. Saw a showing of âCourse of Empireâ and was
astonished. Looking at a photo canât prepare you for the impact of
a wall-sized painting crammed with magnifying glass-sized details.
hodgesrm wrote 2 days ago:
This. I had the same feeling on seeing The Triumph of Death by
Pieter Bruegel the Elder in the Prado. [0] It's one thing to see
the painting in a book. It's another thing to turn the corner into
a room and see the full 20 square foot landscape in front of you.
(It's still one of my favorite paintings of all time.)
[0]
URI [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triumph_of_Death
wahnfrieden wrote 2 days ago:
monitors also do not reproduce much color spectrum that is apparent
in painting situated in a room
happytiger wrote 2 days ago:
Yes you are describing my experience exactly. This art is one of
those arts that looks nice in photos and is just impactful (?) in
person. Like, movingly painted somehow? It is emotionally arresting.
He has captured something of the human spirit in some of his work.
Well said.
m463 wrote 2 days ago:
I looked at his work here: [1] his medusa kind of reminds me of joseph
ducreaux: [2] (without the blood)
URI [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravaggio
URI [2]: https://www.openculture.com/2021/12/the-eccentric-self-portrai...
languagehacker wrote 3 days ago:
My favorite painter! I highly recommend Caravaggio: A Life Sacred and
Profane by Andrew Graham-Dixon. That and the Derek Jarman film (as
referenced by others) provide valuable insight into his grandiose and
self-destructive behavior, along with the patronage system that allowed
him countless second chances until he managed to burn every bridge
available to him. Michelangelo Merisi teaches us a great lesson on the
precariousness of talent mixed with recklessness.
anonnon wrote 3 days ago:
His erratic behavior may have been attributable to heavy metal
poisoning, especially lead, much of which came from his paints:
URI [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2010/jun/16/caravaggi...
Daub wrote 2 days ago:
I have heard the same thing (wrongly) said of Van Gogh, whose poor
mental condition towards the end of his life was almost certainly
caused by syphilis.
This is not to underplay the impact of poisonous paints: the entire
cadmium range (cadmium red and yellow), Naples yellow ( lead
antimonate), Flake white (lead again). For more horrors, check out
the book artist beware.
Looking at the article you linked, the evidence for Caravaggio's
death by lead poisoning does indeed seem conclusive. However, IMO it
almost certainly was not through the use of paint itself, but from
the careless manufacture of paint. In those days, most painters made
their own paint by mixing powder pigment with oil. Powdered lead
pigments is 100 times more dangerous than pigment locked into an oil
emulsion.
A dear artist friend of mine died as a result of their art. God bless
you Jim where ever you are.
happytiger wrote 2 days ago:
Cheers to Jim!
lazide wrote 3 days ago:
Jesus Christ does that website have a shit ton of trackers. 321
âpartners with access to fine geolocationâ?!?
pluc wrote 2 days ago:
Stop using Javascript on the Internet and you'll find yourself back
in 1998. Advertisers, marketers and front-end devs have ruined it.
Only selectively allow each JS source, fuck them.
somat wrote 2 days ago:
And the icing on the cake is how it starts with a modal dialog
headlined "We value your privacy"
jdmoreira wrote 3 days ago:
I recommend the episodes about his life on the History on Fire podcast.
This guy was WILD
bbkane wrote 3 days ago:
I recommend the Caravaggio episodes of [1] to everyone!
Michael Anthony does a REALLY good job contextualizing Caravaggios
crazy actions and giving a "window" into life in Italy then.
URI [1]: https://artholespodcast.com/
jpfr wrote 3 days ago:
I agree! The ArtHoles podcast is superb.
There were some updates on his Instagram lately.
Fingers crossed for more episodes.
This is the first online-first content producer I'd consider paying
real money for...
SirLJ wrote 3 days ago:
This is great podcast! Frida Kahlo series was the best IMHO
ilikeitdark wrote 3 days ago:
One of my favorite painter. Deserves a film or limited series. Only if
done well and with accuracy, which may be near impossible.
ecocentrik wrote 3 days ago:
There is a decent film by Derik Jarman, Caravaggio (1986) with Sean
Bean and Tilda Swinton.
Daub wrote 2 days ago:
I think I was an extra on that movie. I say 'think' and Derik never
told me what movie he was shooting. Good times.
osullivj wrote 2 days ago:
Do tell, says this Caravaggio, el Greco and Beccafumi
obsessive...
Daub wrote 2 days ago:
So... Derek Jarman had a studio in one of the old warehouses
alongside the thames before it became the yupified, soulless
nonsence it is now. I was an artist but also modelled
frequently for other artists and art schools (not unusual for a
young artist).
DJ was in the process of producing Caravaggio, and I heard
through a freind that DJ was looking for models not shy about
being 'au naturel' in front of the camera. The shoot required
that I dance naked, together with many other guys, at night
around a large fire, located in an empty lot next to his
studio.
I know that his Caravagio movie was in production (or
development) and being openly discussed at the time and this
was part of my motivation behind accepting the (unpaid) gig.
However, from my single viewing of the movie, I cannot recal
seeing any such scene.
There are plenty of similar scenes in his movie Sebastian, but
the dates don't work out. It's concievable that he was just
shooting one of his off the cuf experimental works... who
knows.
The shoot itself was a bit chaotic. Most of the other guys
there were gay and up for a party..., Very frisky. As a young
straight lad, I was a bit freaked out, but Derik himself was a
complete gentleman, and also very protective of me. Needless to
say I did not return. However, I maintain very fond memories of
DJ. He had a wiked sence if humour and was evidently a man a
great humanity.
I do recal towards the end of the evening seeing him cry. Maybe
it was because of the stress of the shoot, or maybe because of
health issues (he was diagnosed HIV+ around that time but my
memory of the dates is fuzzy).
He was part of a London that no longer exists... Punk,
alternative, pre-yuppy. Much missed.
YeGoblynQueenne wrote 1 day ago:
Thank you for sharing. I added this to my favourites. What a
great bit of history.
Those were the good bits of British culture I guess. Now
everyone's so alternative and there's no longer need for
counterculture.
Daub wrote 11 hours 27 min ago:
Well, that's the fulcrum isn't it? The moment when
counterculture become mainstream. It is also the moment
when acid become after-shave.
rsynnott wrote 2 days ago:
A lot of stuff gets filmed and then cut, so it might just be
that. You might be on a director's cut DVD somewhere! (Though
way less likely for old stuff, where the removed material may
no longer even exist.)
ramijames wrote 3 days ago:
This was an excellent article!
He's one of my favorite painters. Such depth and emotion. It's so fun
to know more about how awful an actual person he was. Super cool that
all of this information is still accessible 400 years later.
huytersd wrote 3 days ago:
Caravaggio was my favorite artist with the chiaroscuro style when I was
naive about art and he still is now when Iâm not.
david927 wrote 3 days ago:
great comment! I think Caravaggio is an artist's artist. Come for
the drama and tenebrism, stay for the unbridled genius.
pvg wrote 3 days ago:
URI [1]: https://archive.is/bDovV
neonate wrote 3 days ago:
URI [1]: http://web.archive.org/web/20240327160052/https://www.newsta...
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