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on Gopher (inofficial)
URI Visit Hacker News on the Web
COMMENT PAGE FOR:
URI Getting Past Procrastination
agumonkey wrote 2 hours 33 min ago:
Some people describe that as momentum preserving workflow.
uptownfunk wrote 3 hours 22 min ago:
Maybe fighting it itself is a form of exercise. Maybe fighting it is an
end in itself regardless if you got anything done. But not trying is
the failure.
kazinator wrote 4 hours 9 min ago:
I'm not addicted to procrastination. I can start any time I want to!
chistev wrote 6 hours 30 min ago:
They say we procrastinate when we feel anxious about the task we are
supposed to be doing.
4ndrewl wrote 6 hours 32 min ago:
Don't forget folks, Always Be Productive!
Ericson2314 wrote 6 hours 36 min ago:
It is correct on self-esteem and procrastination being bidirectionally
linked
adamnemecek wrote 6 hours 36 min ago:
Procrastination is a sign that you donât give a shit.
fHr wrote 6 hours 41 min ago:
I read this to Procrastinate of course...
satisfice wrote 6 hours 46 min ago:
Procrastination is not a problem. The problem is being unhappy with
procrastination.
I accept it as part of my life, because I believe it is an intuitive
process that protects me from doing bad work.
There are times when I really have to get something done, and then I
need to put pressure on myself. But mostly I have learned to listen to
and respect my procrastination.
devenson wrote 7 hours 9 min ago:
When stuck I do what I call "prepping". Don't try to do the task, just
prep for it -- clean the room, the desk, close distracting websites,
gather the materials.
It's lowering the activation energy so the reaction can happen more
easily.
polishdude20 wrote 6 hours 59 min ago:
I notice cleaning had a huge effect on greasing the wheels for me.
It's the decluttering for me which I think prevents me from thinking
about all the stuff on the counter in some far off place in my mind.
em-bee wrote 6 hours 56 min ago:
cleaning for me is just another form of procrastination. the reason
i think that is because once i am done cleaning i feel no better or
more motivated to do the work. on the contrary i feel frustrated by
how much time i spent cleaning up.
kriro wrote 7 hours 44 min ago:
I disagree with the idea that getting past procrastination should
(always) be the target.
Mostly because I don't think procrastination is inherently bad. There's
a lot of stigma attached to procrastination as it's seen as being
"unproductive". But I think procrastination can lead to great insights.
Your brain is telling you that it is not interested in the current
task. The question is: Why? Overworked and needs a break? Much more
interested in exploring something else? Protecting against the pain of
failure?
Investigating the why instead of forcing "overcoming" is quite fruitful
in my personal experience.
My guess is "action leads to motivation" might be helpful for solving
one of the root causes (likely fear of failure/imposter syndrom) but
not all of them.
thenoblesunfish wrote 1 hour 17 min ago:
This post and similar advice is aimed at people who feel pain from
procrastination. You are not one of them, probably. It's not an
inherently bad thing, just like any number of things some, not all,
people struggle greatly with (drugs, food, etc.).
ponector wrote 2 hours 53 min ago:
Why? The answer is easy: the work is pointless corporate bullshit.
Not sure if it ever going to hit the prod at all. But they pay huge
salary and I need money. Turns out nice things are expensive.
Kiro wrote 5 hours 49 min ago:
That's nice and all but when your procrastination prevents you from
doing anything at all for months it doesn't really feel like it's a
good thing.
tejohnso wrote 6 hours 14 min ago:
> Your brain is telling you that it is not interested in the current
task. The question is: Why?
I think for a lot of us it's something like: Because it's nonsense
busywork that I don't care about. Procrastinating isn't going to
help, and it is absolutely bad because it leads to uncompleted tasks
and that leads to financial distress. I need to get it done
regardless of whether it's going to provide a dopamine hit or not.
Best thing to do is to stop thinking about it and get it out of the
way so that I can focus on the things I want to do. I'm not
overworked, I just don't want to do this task. I am interested in
exploring something else but that's not a choice that I have right
now. I don't have the privilege of doing whatever I feel like doing.
Pain of failure? No, it's not at all something that I'll fail at.
It's drudgery avoidance. Unfortunately there's plenty of drudgery
that has to be completed.
satisfice wrote 6 hours 45 min ago:
Well said!
The productivity fetishists want us to hate ourselves for resisting
the orders issued by the executive mind. Fuck that.
mromanuk wrote 7 hours 22 min ago:
I procrastinate all the time, listen to much to your mind or chase
the fun stuff only, would not get you traction, probably itâs a
distraction, because the mind is lazy. Most of our systems wants to
conserve energy or expend at little as possible. Going to the gym in
a cold morning is not something that the mind or body is seeking, so
listen to the idea of not going would be bad for you. Muscles are
lazy too, they just want to chill. But if you make them do a little
work, they like it and ask for more. We are weird and we need to
force us to do stuff. Thatâs your job, you command your body
CharlieDigital wrote 7 hours 33 min ago:
I procrastinate a lot on hard tasks and usually it's because I don't
yet fully understand the risks with each decision that goes into the
design.
I think for younger engineers "fail fast" makes a lot of sense;
there's not enough of a foundation of experience to tell right from
wrong so the only way to learn is to fail.
For more experienced engineers, there's a greater sense of "I have a
sense where this can fail; how do I design around that?"
It's not that a more experienced engineer will know exactly how it
fails, but that there are modalities of failure that have been
encountered so the goal is to design with some flexibility or
optionality in mind. And sometimes, this just requires a bit of
"gestation" or "percolation" before carving the path.
I think of it like an experienced sculptor sizing up a block of
marble before making the first strike with a chisel. It's a kind of
procrastination, but really, its a process of visualizing the path.
nine_k wrote 39 min ago:
This is a solid observation.
I'd say that procrastination is bad when it drives you into some
unproductive but addictive behavior, like watching silly tiktok
videos, etc. It can be actually good if you do "structured
procrastination": can't force myself to do task X, but find solace
in solving problem Y really neatly. Another approach is to take a
walk, do push-ups, etc, anything that changes your focus away from
mental tasks, and preferably brings more oxygen to your brain.
Yet another approach is analytical: "I can't stomach doing that
thing! But what thoughts or feelings make me loathe it so much?
Where do they come from?" Interesting insights can follow.
mnemonk wrote 2 hours 18 min ago:
Wow, that's a really insightful perspective. I often feel a bit
ashamed for reading hacker news or some other IT related post on
the net when I know I should be doing some development task.
Your description pretty accurately describes the reasons for my
procrastination.
Thank you.
yde_java wrote 7 hours 56 min ago:
Before coding on the actual problem I usually start with a tiny
refactoring of something that's related. That's my warming up sports
before tackling the actual exercise. Works 100% for me.
throwpoaster wrote 8 hours 17 min ago:
Sometimes what one self-describes as procrastination is actually ADHD
or values misalignment â sometimes one cannot work for reasons that
are not personal failings.
I have found that âprocrastinationâ is not a particularly helpful
word because, for me, its meaning includes a shame component that can
obfuscate causes.
subhro wrote 8 hours 38 min ago:
Make your own bed (?)
Ref:
URI [1]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBQLFLei70
ednite wrote 9 hours 51 min ago:
Some great comments in this thread and I agree, a lot of it comes down
to understanding yourself.
In my case, not always, but often, procrastination shows up when fear
is involved. Fear of failure, of not doing something perfectly, of the
task being too big. Whatâs helped me is turning the task into a
challenge, because I know that personally, I thrive on challenges. It
re-frames the fear into something exciting, and once I get started, I
follow all of the other advice such like breaking it down into small
steps. Thanks for sharing.
athenot wrote 8 hours 5 min ago:
Iâve had a similar experience. If itâs a âI must doâ with
high stakes, I get a fear of failure, fear of disappointing and if
left unchecked it unfortunately becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
However, challenges that start with âI wonder ifââlike
wondering if some bold idea just might actually be possibleâgive me
a huge reservoir of energy to work well beyond my normal limits and
find new solution that truly make a difference.
Of course in most projects, actual innovation is only a fraction of
the work so some reframing of ârun the businessâ tasks is
necessary. Thatâs when I tap into gratitude: for being able to work
on a project, for being entrusted with a particular task, etc.
ednite wrote 4 hours 18 min ago:
I like your approach of reframing with gratitude, may borrow that.
Thanks!
predkambrij wrote 9 hours 51 min ago:
I like to have phone with 30min countdown, this helps me keep sense of
time. Sort of like pomodoro, but for a different purpose.
wseqyrku wrote 9 hours 55 min ago:
There was one quote that helped me get past this, "self-discipline is a
form of self-respect" and there's no way around that if you don't have
any.
haunter wrote 10 hours 22 min ago:
I need something like that not for work... but for hobbies.
yodsanklai wrote 10 hours 27 min ago:
> Across a decade working at hypergrowth tech companies like Meta and
Pinterest, I constantly struggled with procrastination
I used to procrastinate a lot when I was a PhD student and later in
academia. Sometimes, it was literally weeks of doing nothing and
stressing out.
I eventually migrated to big tech and I now rarely procrastinate. We
have pretty tangible goals, good results are rewarded and lack of
results would raise concerns pretty quickly.
In my case, working in the right environment helped a lot with
procrastination.
shreddit wrote 5 hours 43 min ago:
> lack of results would raise concerns pretty quickly.
In my case, working in the right environment helped a lot with
procrastination.
Sounds more like fear than ânotâ procrastinating.
But on the other hand fear is a good motivator
jrrrp wrote 7 hours 51 min ago:
It's good to read this while being in one of those nothing-months
myself. I have extended the deadlines and my goals are not clear.
Incidentally, I have a supervisor who felt the exact same way when he
was doing his PhD and fled to industry. Evidently he found that there
was something to be enjoyed in the freedoms of research and returned.
cardanome wrote 10 hours 34 min ago:
It is normal to struggle with procrastination from time to time but if
is a regular occurrence you need to check the actual causes.
You might have ADHD.
And is is very important to know whether you have it or not because all
that advice for neurotypical people will not work for you then. In fact
it will harm you. It will make you feel as a failure.
You need to figure out how your brain works and only then you will
finally manage to make lasting changes.
parpfish wrote 10 hours 17 min ago:
Whatâs an example of the kind of advice that doesnât work?
(Iâm always curious to learn other potential diagnostic markers for
adhd)
jasode wrote 9 hours 53 min ago:
>Whatâs an example of the kind of advice that doesnât work?
For some people struggling with chronic lifelong procrastination,
the oft-repeated advice from the author such as "Action leads to
motivation, not the other way around." ... and similar variants
such as, "Screw motivation, what you need is discipline!" ... and
other related big picture ideas such as Dilbert cartoonist Scott
Adams' "Systems instead of Goals"
-- all do not work.
And adding extra rhetorical embellishments to the advice such as
using the phrase "it's simple [...]", and using the word "[...]
just [...]" as in:
- "Stopping procrastination isn't that hard to solve. It's simple.
Just chop up the task into much smaller subtasks and just start on
that tiny subtask. That will give you momentum to finish it."
... also doesn't work. Some procrastinators just procrastinate the
initiation of starting that tiny subtask! For the few that
actually do try to start with that first step, they'll quickly lose
steam because of boredom/distraction/whatever and the overall task
remains unfinished.
A lot of books and blogs about time management repeat the same
advice that many procrastinators have all heard before and it
doesn't work. The procrastinators understand the logic of the
advice but it doesn't matter because there are psychological
roadblocks that prevent them from following it.
EDIT reply to: >That doesn't mean the advice is bad,
I'm not saying the advice is wrong. Instead, I'm saying that some
well-meaning people who give that repeated advice seem surprised
that it doesn't work on some people. Because the advice givers
believed "Action Precedes Motivation" worked on themselves, they
automatically assume that imparting those same words to other
procrastinators will also work. It often doesn't. The
meta-analysis of that advice and why it sometimes doesn't work is
not done because the people giving that advice are the ones who
used that technique successfully. This creates a self-confirmation
bias.
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote 5 hours 15 min ago:
Your points are well taken, though I want to nuance them a bit.
My experience(with severe ADHD-C) is that this type of advice can
work. It's just that it's not something you can just decide to
start doing and immediately find success at. It's just a lot more
complicated to get this off the ground, but it's possible. For
some complex organisational system, you need to compile that
system into "ADHD byte code" and for that, you need to bootstrap
a compiler. Create an incredibly simple, extensible system which
can do things your ADHD brain can't on its own. Then you need to
find ways to force yourself to follow that system using various
hacks like alarms tied to QR codes, body doubling, regular
therapy or home visits, etc. then you can start implementing more
complex structure in that system. And even the simple system is
not gonna be easy. It's gonna take months of trying, failing,
starting over. The ADHD brain is absolutely capable of developing
habits(just look at the comorbidity rates between ADHD and
various types of addiction), it's just a lot of work.
I'm in the process of doing this myself, and after 8 months, with
many setbacks, I kinda have a base system I'm following that's
significantly improving my quality of life and ability to keep up
with everyday tasks. And it's still a struggle, but it's getting
easier.
I'm writing a blog post about it currently, which will be more
structured. It's about how I used my software dev skills to think
about and tackle my ADHD(and other issues). Not about writing
actual software(although software is involved), but imagining the
brain exhibiting ADHD is a software system , identifying the
"bugs", and combining concepts from software dev and
behavioral/cognitive psychology to fix, or at least mitigate
them.
This blog post could be finished two days from now, two years
from now, or never. ADHD is still hard to live with, and I'm
still quite dysfunctional. I guess if I do finish it, it'll be
worth reading since I'll be on to something...
jdenning wrote 3 hours 37 min ago:
Please post the link when itâs ready - Iâm very interested
em-bee wrote 2 hours 16 min ago:
better yet, share the link to your blog if you don't mind
making it public so we can follow it and find the post when
it's ready. (in my case you can also email me (see my
profile) and i'll keep it to myself)
owebmaster wrote 9 hours 24 min ago:
This looks like an answer from a procrastinator that actually
developed a system to ensure they continue procrastinating
long-term. Sure, suggestions of systems that could help with that
won't help without a sometimes descomunal effort. That doesn't
mean the advice is bad, just that it's hard and most people won't
be able to overcome lifelong procrastination.
cardanome wrote 7 hours 26 min ago:
Your brain does not work the same way as my brain works. I am
sorry, I know this is hard to believe but you will develop some
actual emphathy once you accept the fact.
General advice for running a marathon will not for for someone
who has no legs. I can't will my brain to work differently than
it does. I can just learn to cope with my ADHD brain. And you
being judgemental about it will not change that.
owebmaster wrote 4 hours 40 min ago:
> Your brain does not work the same way as my brain works. I
am sorry, I know this is hard to believe but you will develop
some actual emphathy once you accept the fact.
I am also sorry but I do have ADHD and I'm no different than
any other human being, and so aren't you. Many people just
deal with it much better than you, but at least it means it
is possible. Nobody said it is easy but people with ADHD have
a tendency to think that people doing what they need to do
have it easy, "they just do it". Well, no. That is not how it
works. It is hard for everybody.
parpfish wrote 9 hours 25 min ago:
If somebody had âlifelong procrastinationâ and was routinely
overwhelmed by simple tasks, my first thought would be to see if
they are actually dealing with depression because it sounds like
something bigger.
bluefirebrand wrote 6 hours 21 min ago:
Yes, when I struggled with motivation, procrastination,
whatever you want to call it, I was diagnosed as depressed for
years
Turns out, unmedicated ADHD, procrastination, and depression
are all comorbid
cardanome wrote 7 hours 13 min ago:
How is depression "bigger" that ADHD? That sounds super
invalidating.
Being overwhelmed with simple task is typical ADHD behavior.
Lots of people with untreated ADHD develop depression as well.
It is not either/or. Not to mention that there is a overlap in
symptoms as well.
A diagnosis for ADHD will make sure that there no other
physical or mental things present that could explain the
symptoms instead. The will try to exclude anything else that
could explain your struggles. They check for stuff like
depression.
On the other hand, a depression diagnosis is just given out
like candy. I never understood that.
Why wouldn't you ask WHY someone is depressed in the first
place? I don't mean to invalidate people that are depressed.
Sometimes that is just what is going on but it still vexes me
because so many neurodivergent people will get diagnosis like
"depression" because health care providers refuse to look
further into it.
It is such an uphill battle get diagnosed with ADHD.
parpfish wrote 7 hours 10 min ago:
I didnât say depression was bigger than adhd. Depression is
bigger than âI just need a little productivity hack to get
startedâ
em-bee wrote 9 hours 40 min ago:
so what does work then?
isn't the problem here that the answer is very individual. for me
for example some of the above things do work, and some don't.
some of the time. it's like it depends and there is no clear
answer even just for myself. knowing whether i had ADHD would not
make any difference. i'd still not know what works.
for example i have seen tasks lists recommended as one way to
deal with ADHD. because the lists help focus. isn't breaking
things down into small steps the same thing? others here with
ADHD also claim that specific suggestions work for them. so this
isn't clear cut, and it doesn't make sense to just dismiss the
suggestions.
you are right, there is more than just getting started. boredom
and distractions are a problem too. but they are also a problem
for "normal" people.
seems to me that the only thing we can do is to list a number of
possible approaches, and let everyone pick what works best for
them.
so back to the original question: what does work for people with
ADHD?
cardanome wrote 7 hours 34 min ago:
> what does work for people with ADHD
Medication.
Not for everyone with ADHD. Only for 70% but that is still
pretty good.
Besides that, again understanding how their brains work.
Neurotypical people don't have executive dysfunction. If they
have a task that they know how to do, have the means to do,
know they need to do, have the time to do and want to do, they
can... just do it.
In fact neurotypical people can't even imagine it being any
other way. For me with ADHD this sounds like a super power that
I can't even comprehend having.
To simplify it very much, the ADHD brain is chronically
understimultated. It lacks dopamine.
So easy boring tasks can be insanely painful. That is why
stimulants work so well. It is not to get us "high", it so so
we get the same level of stimulation as a neurotypical person
watching paint dry.
But, we can still get over-stimulated as well so it is a
balance act.
Neurotypical people mostly manage time and exhaustion, I guess
but managing ADHD is managing your level of stimulation and
focus and time tertiary.
You need to build activities into your routine that stimulate
you, both mentally and physically. Washing your clothing can be
much more taxing for you that fixing that complex bug no one
else can figure out. ADHD can make the hard things easy and the
easy things hard.
So yeah, ultimately every human is different and what works for
one might not work for another. Yes some advice or trick for
neurotypical people might also work for someone with ADHD but
if you don't understand yourself you will not know what to user
and what to dismiss and only hurt yourself.
spelunker wrote 7 hours 34 min ago:
Honestly, medication.
hliyan wrote 10 hours 42 min ago:
To me, procrastination is the brain overestimating (or perhaps just
estimating) the unpleasantness of a task in the future. The
unpleasantness could come from general lack of pleasure in performing
the task, anticipation of frustration or irritation due to a gap in the
skills or resources required, anxiety about not being able to
successfully complete the task, or the output of the task not meeting
one's personal expectations.
One example for me is getting out of the house: I loathe the idea of
getting dressed, getting into the car and driving, whenever I
contemplate it, but once I'm behind the wheel, the thought always is
"this isn't so bad". If I think about the getting dressed bit, that
too, thought of in isolation, isn't so bad. It seems it is the
anticipation of a seemingly complex sequence of tasks that tend to put
the brain off.
veunes wrote 13 hours 8 min ago:
The "action precedes motivation" idea is underrated. I've definitely
found that once I take that first tiny step (open the file, write the
first test, whatever), things start to flow. It's weirdly easy to
forget that when you're stuck in that doom-scroll-procrastinate spiral.
raincole wrote 13 hours 12 min ago:
I don't know why prestigious institutions like IEEE and Nature all have
blogs to post fluff and opinion pieces today. Why do they need page
views?
melodyogonna wrote 13 hours 32 min ago:
I've found that sometimes the first action doesn't even have to involve
directly working on the problem, just trying to write down a series of
actions you need to take in a todo list can unblock you mentally.
parpfish wrote 9 hours 50 min ago:
Sometimes I can trick myself into getting started that way.
The trick is to come up with a tiny goal and give yourself permission
to quit once you reach it so itâs not like your overwhelmed by the
full task.
The smallness of the task is important, but itâs even more
important that you genuinely give yourself permission to stop when
itâs done. If you donât do that, itâs not âone small taskâ,
itâs âstep one in a big taskâ and youâll keep procrastinating
For coding itâs a sequence of:
âIll just get all the software and documentation open and
organizedâ
âIâll create a few empty files on a new branchâ
âIâll just stub out a few things I KNOW Iâll needâ
â¦
For other non-code writing, Iâve occasionally been able to hack it
in a similar way by writing progressively more detailed outlines.
For physical projects, sometimes itâs just about gathering supplies
and organizing tools.
nilirl wrote 14 hours 40 min ago:
The warrant for this claim: The smaller the action you ask from
yourself, the easier it is to choose it over inaction.
But sometimes it's not inaction we're choosing against; it's
discomfort.
In that case, this becomes simplistic.
veunes wrote 12 hours 58 min ago:
Breaking things down can still help, but it doesn't magically erase
the discomfort. It's more like easing into cold water
kubb wrote 14 hours 44 min ago:
My goodness, a FAANG coaster is founding a tech startup -_-
imjonse wrote 14 hours 55 min ago:
"Across a decade working at hypergrowth tech companies like Meta and
Pinterest, I constantly struggled with procrastination [...] I was not
making progress on the things that mattered."
Maybe unless one can really convince themselves that their daily work
matters (really matters and not just for their team/company metrics)
one is bound to procrastinate as a symptom of some subconscious sense
of pointlessness.
polishdude20 wrote 6 hours 55 min ago:
My boss met with me this week to have me finish something important
to get done by Friday. That really kicked me into gear this week and
I was very motivated and productive. Come Friday, no message, no more
push from him, no mention of how he needs my work or asking how it's
going. That instantly tanked my motivation to continue
caminante wrote 5 hours 59 min ago:
> Come Friday, no message [...] tanked my motivation to continue
I see the bookends, but notice the root cause
> That really kicked me into gear [...] I was very motivated and
productive
You don't have intrinsic motivation for these tasks and the job.
This is the thread to pull on. Keep asking "why?"
In the least, I recommend a pro-active note, letting him know
you're done and ready for his feedback on the assignment or new
priorities. Figure out why he didn't (or persistently doesn't)
follow-up.
em-bee wrote 6 hours 45 min ago:
in situations like this i forgive them if the only effect is that i
get work done faster without downsides to my other
activities/responsibilities. priorities change. if less
procrastination is the only sideeffect i am not complaining.
annie_muss wrote 11 hours 28 min ago:
When I see stories like this I always wonder "How did you get and
keep jobs at meta and Pinterest if you have a procrastination
problem?"
I procrastinated so badly I could never apply for jobs. And the jobs
I did get I lost quickly due to the same procrastination.
kuboble wrote 6 hours 2 min ago:
I was thinking about it a lot.
I think the programmers in most environments aren't judged based on
some hard metrics that could say someone procrastinated half of the
time and could have done twice as much.
Most judgement comes from remembering whether anything has been
done at all, and if yes then whether it was sunbathing of quality.
People (I at least) will rate higher someone who worked less but
contributed higher quality code. Also good contributions to
discussion, mentoring juniors is something a procrastinator might
not even think is work but is valued highly.
And even while procrastinating some part of your brain often thinks
about problem so the time isn't completely lost.
All in all procrastinators aren't as bad as it sounds unless we get
into some deep pathology.
jampekka wrote 7 hours 53 min ago:
I think almost everybody has procrastination problems of some
degree from time to time. Especially in occupations that need
concentration on complicated things.
But procrastination problems don't mean infinite procrastination.
It's just that work keeps piling up and then it has to be done in a
burst when it has to really be done. I find this doesn't
necessarily mean my output is less (in the short term), it's just
that it's exhausting.
Also productivity requirements at work, no matter how fancy
workolace, are typically way less than you may think. Just showing
up and not actively cause grief goes a long way.
What you tend to see publicly is people in their productive phases,
or quite exceptional outliers, or just messaging.
ndr42 wrote 12 hours 6 min ago:
I observe the opposite: the more important something is the more
afraid I am to approach it. I procrastinate because it is important.
layer8 wrote 11 hours 23 min ago:
I suspect it's because of fear of failure, as failure is more
consequential the more important the task is.
xorcist wrote 12 hours 18 min ago:
Relentlessly trying to lock up as much of the world's information as
possible behind your login wall, I'd be struggling with
procrastination as well.
Maybe the answer isn't so much finding new tricks to play on your
mind, but finding something to do that doesn't involve codifying more
power in the strong leader, to increase his masculinity in the
worklace or whatever the political issue du jour is.
veunes wrote 13 hours 0 min ago:
Yep, it's hard to summon genuine motivation when, deep down,
something feels meaningless. You can build all the productivity
systems in the world, but if the work itself feels hollow...
anal_reactor wrote 15 hours 47 min ago:
The older I get, the more I realize there's no point. I'll never be
rich. I'll never have a family. I'll never go to space. I'll never take
part in Olympics. Best I can do is beating a video game on medium. So I
try to focus on that, instead of spending 80% of my life trying to make
myself 20% more productive.
em-bee wrote 9 hours 53 min ago:
i'll never be rich either, and contrary to the KFC founder who got
rich very late it is not lack of opportunity but lack of motivation
to be rich. as soon as i earn some money i'll spend it on hiring
others to help me build what i want, or if it is enough, even stop
earning money to focus on my interests.
family is trickier. finding the right partner is very hard. it takes
a lot of introspection and being able to recognize flaws in yourself
and in your partner. it took me decades to understand what i need in
a partner. and now i feel like i'd rather stay alone than have a
partner that doesn't fill my needs. that sounds very selfish, but it
goes of course both ways, i also look at the needs of my partner and
evaluate whether i can fulfill those needs. (in short it's about
compatible goals. many chinese women for example just want their
husband to be successful and enable a comfortable life. fortunately
the woman i found didn't because as i said above, that's just not a
life goal for me)
when you mention space, the olympics and video games i get the
impression that those are not even your real goals, and you are more
likely lamenting that you feel like you don't have anything to strive
for.
as i wrote above, it took me decades, not just to understand what i
need in a partner, but simply what i need in life. the interesting
thing is that now that i think i understand that, actually fulfilling
that need became less important. understanding myself helped me
detach.
as for beating procrastination, for me it's not about increasing
productivity but being productive at all. it's not just 20%, it's
200% or more. it's about keeping that job and doing enough to get
leads for the next one.
nasretdinov wrote 12 hours 45 min ago:
On a serious note, you never actually _know_ that e.g. you'll never
be rich. E.g. KFC founder was ~62 years old when they founded the
company. The median age of (successful) founders is also roughly 40,
if not more.
em-bee wrote 9 hours 52 min ago:
see my comment above. i know that i'll never be rich, nor do i want
to, because trying to get rich it would interfere with how i want
to live my life...
hi41 wrote 14 hours 13 min ago:
Regarding the family part. Donât feel terribly bas about not having
a family. There is the possibility of a divorce and the resulting
court ordered payments that can be far more devastating. Itâs
simply too hard to keep someone else happy all the time. Frustrations
add up, more fights, more insults, more angry words. As humans I
donât think we can ever be happy.
331c8c71 wrote 11 hours 38 min ago:
> Itâs simply too hard to keep someone else happy all the time
It's definitely going to be too hard as it is imo simply not
possible and is a non-goal for a marriage.
anal_reactor wrote 11 hours 38 min ago:
I know, but it still sucks to be alone. It's instinct to seek
partnership
nasretdinov wrote 15 hours 29 min ago:
This vibe matches perfectly with your nick name :)
verisimi wrote 16 hours 19 min ago:
In defence of procrastination, perhaps there are good reasons for
failing to have enthusiasm for whatever-it-is. Perhaps trying to do
something but being unable to muster the energy is an indication that
this is not the thing you really ought to be doing. That the thing you
believe to be a worthy goal is itself a false goal, and not where your
heart is at, and that you need to take a second, deeper look.
Or maybe that is just another excuse :)
em-bee wrote 10 hours 40 min ago:
sure, but it was the only thing paying at the time. so what choice
did i have? my heart is on building my own project, but to do that
i'd have to be independently wealthy, or save up at least 50k so that
i can afford to be without an income for a year. at least i learned
something so if i managed to focus on that i could get some
motivation going.
bravesoul2 wrote 14 hours 5 min ago:
Oh yeah! There are things that you "have" to do to fit a monoculture
that are not fun.
unkulunkulu wrote 15 hours 27 min ago:
There is a lot of truth in what youâre saying I believe.
At least, in the âcadence of workâ. They say in the article about
consistent productivity for example. But lets think about consistency
and quantitative productivity (ie amount of work per day).
of course we are pressured to be âconsistently highly
productiveâ. But is it healthy and sustainable for everyone?
Probably not. So I would start with âconsistently bare minimum
productiveâ and not demand more from myself. If I demand more, the
âprocrastinationâ kicks in, because my body knows that it needs
rest and relaxation.
we are not robots: work for us and not we for work.
verisimi wrote 14 hours 53 min ago:
I agree. I even see support of this in the seasons. If you think
about the difference in light between summer and winter, it is far
more natural to be up and about when there is more light, and far
more likely to be 'lazy' in the winter. The workweek however is
constant, even though the quality of time is entirely different.
So, in this example 'time' throughout the year is not the same -
feeling less energetic in winter is perfectly acceptable, and not a
problem.
You can characterise this real factor (quality of time over the
year) as 'procrastination' but I think this is unfair. Other
factors such as joy/depression, meaning in work, personal
circumstances, etc also come in to play. But yeah, if 'work' is
the highest principle one has, these are just excuses for
procrastination.
unkulunkulu wrote 5 hours 47 min ago:
Wow! You probably just opened my eyes to the âspring
productivity boostâ pattern clearly observed in my life :)
> But yeah, if 'work' is the highest principle one has, these are
just excuses for procrastination.
exactly! And even rhyming some other thread here, this might
happen if âworkâ is procrastination for the life itself. I
honestly feel myself here now: work figured out as process, but
life⦠oh my I better go write some code.
Itâs like youâre cornered: youâre like deer in the
headlights concerned with âworkâ, if youâre not
âproductiveâ, you devalue yourself completely. It could
happen if you chose work as your primary value long before you
realized that the same patterns will lead you into the corner
inside work itself.
Itâs like running away from one world to another to another
until there is no further escape. Then hopefully, you start to
find the way back, because you have the Ariadneâs thread in
your hands.
Good luck to us all :)
JustinCS wrote 16 hours 34 min ago:
Related to taking tiny steps, I've set up a daily habit checklist with
the lowest bar possible, even lower than the author's suggested log
statement. When it comes to software dev, it's just "open my IDE and
look at my notes for what to do next". This usually just takes 10
seconds, but it's the first step in starting and usually leads to me
doing at least a bit more, so it's helpful when I'm at my lowest in
terms of energy. And even if I do nothing else, I get some satisfaction
that I at least completed my to-do and did a tiny bit more than nothing
for the day.
unkulunkulu wrote 15 hours 35 min ago:
++ for the âlowest barâ and constantly negotiate with oneself on
if every line is still valuable and brings profit and not despair.
Like âbrush teethâ, âdo nothing at all for half an hour after
workâ âremove trash photos for the day in the phoneâ, âfinish
workingâ (here I have a detailed sublist ending with âclose
computer lidâ)
âmove todos I did not have time for today to tomorrowâ
another cool habit is âI did listâ: add items that you did that
were not planned, because we sometimes forget why we did not do
something âplannedâ, because we actually did something else
important that we are just blind to when âplanningâ. for example,
âmealâ, âtook some rest that I actually needâ, âtook out
trashâ, âtold someone irritating to fuck offâ etc etc
madduci wrote 16 hours 35 min ago:
The article focuses more on procrastination at work, what about those
who procrastinate outside of work instead?
rkachowski wrote 13 hours 37 min ago:
I mean, its the same concept. what are you procrastinating on?
madduci wrote 13 hours 29 min ago:
Sometimes on house chores or small repairs to do.
jventura wrote 12 hours 53 min ago:
Everyday I have to prepare dinner and put the plates, glasses,
forks and knifes in the table, and, I don't know why, get that
feeling that I'd rather do anything else (or, most times, nothing
at all). So I always start everything by putting the towel in the
table (don't know if it's called like that in EN, not a native
speaker). It seems to click something and the rest follows.
Maybe the idea can help you starting things?
It also helps that, sometimes, when the tasks are big, I convince
myself that I can finish it later. Many times I do not have to
finish it later..
slumberlust wrote 7 hours 52 min ago:
Is the towel for wiping your mouth? If so I'd call that a
napkin. If the plate goes on top of it it's more a placemats.
If serving dishes get set out on it and it runs the length the
table, a runner.
cjfd wrote 13 hours 13 min ago:
I do not know much or anything about your situation, but here is
one thing that might work.
I would suggest picking a fixed point in time every week. At this
point in time you will finish (if they are small enough,
otherwise split in multiple steps) on of these chores/repairs.
E.g., every Saturday afternoon from 1 am you will finish one of
these. The rest of the time you then do not need to think about
these which is your reward for doing one chore/repair.
baxtr wrote 16 hours 39 min ago:
> Action leads to motivation, not the other way around.
For me, this sounds a bit tautological. Of course the opposite of
procrastination is action.
Itâs similar to saying, âIf you want to lose weight, just eat
less.â Itâs certainly true on a meta level, but very difficult for
some people to implement.
veunes wrote 12 hours 56 min ago:
But in a way that can still be useful. Like, "just do something"
isn't deep wisdom, but when you're stuck, even a cliché can break
the mental loop.
baxtr wrote 12 hours 37 min ago:
Yes, fair enough.
roncesvalles wrote 16 hours 2 min ago:
"If you want to lose weight, just eat less" is not as tautological as
you may think. Many people don't actually know that if you just eat
the same calories as someone 20 lbs lighter than you, you will
eventually weigh 20 lbs lighter, that you don't need to "do" anything
else to shed those 20 lbs.
JustinCS wrote 15 hours 53 min ago:
This isn't really true, everyone has a different basal metabolic
rate, and effectiveness with absorbing calories from food can vary
as well. Even small differences can add up to large effects, the
difference between being at net-zero, or having caloric surplus or
deficit every day.
That said, in practice it may be reasonable advice on average, but
there's also a problem where it's not very practical to eat the
"same" calories as someone else, unless they are together with you
all the time.
Arisaka1 wrote 15 hours 49 min ago:
As someone with fast metabolism who struggled to gain weight: I
get that, but at the same time, understanding that there's trial
and error with your own body but is ultimately all about input
and output does more good than saying "haha I just have fast/slow
rate looool" as justification for not taking care of yourself.
maerch wrote 16 hours 16 min ago:
Itâs about taking small steps to get the flywheel turning, not
about âjust doing it.â You need small wins to build up motivation
for the bigger, more complicated tasks.
If you want to lose weight but donât feel motivated, it might be
because you associate getting started with a strict workout routine
and highly restrictive dieting. But taking smaller steps in the right
direction can spark motivation. From my own experience, I know I
naturally start eating healthier as soon as I get back into running.
lazyasciiart wrote 16 hours 24 min ago:
No - itâs aimed at people who say they canât do x because they
arenât in the right headspace/feeling creative/theyâre too tired,
they will do it when inspiration strikes. People who are waiting for
some uncontrollable muse before they finally write their novel, and
waiting until they feel like a creative person to start taking
drawing lessons, or waiting til the essay idea jumps fully formed
into their head before they start drafting. That isnât a
description of all procrastination.
g3z wrote 16 hours 56 min ago:
Iâll read this later
nasretdinov wrote 17 hours 8 min ago:
I've personally found LLMs to be particularly helpful to get started
with something I have trouble with: surely, they'll most certainly get
it wrong (unless it's something trivial), but it gives you enough
momentum to keep going even if you end up discarding its original
output completely
rented_mule wrote 18 hours 18 min ago:
> Action leads to motivation, not the other way around.
I've found this to be very true. A trick I found that made this easier
for me is to leave a trivial task to start tomorrow with, often with
notes to remind myself what to do. Ideally the trivial task is on the
way to something bigger, not finishing something. That gets me into my
editor, gets me running the code / tests / etc., and gives me a
trivially easy way to get moving. Then the motivation kicks in and I
can start moving for real.
The same approach helps me with tasks outside of software development,
and even outside of work.
agumonkey wrote 2 hours 32 min ago:
Same, it's so much easier to quit just when you hit your limit and
keep a 2 min window to bookmark your solution search and leave some
potential follow ups. Makes restarting your job a lot easier.
parpfish wrote 10 hours 20 min ago:
Iâve heard this called âpark facing downhillâ
veunes wrote 13 hours 3 min ago:
It's way easier to ride the momentum of "just one quick thing" than
to start cold and stare into the void of a blank screen or a big
to-do list
tmoertel wrote 14 hours 20 min ago:
That's Hemingwayâs trick: âYou write until you come to a place
where you still have your juice and know what will happen next and
you stop and try to live through until the next day when you hit it
again.â
URI [1]: https://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4825/the-art-of-fi...
roudaki wrote 8 hours 58 min ago:
there are so many different names for this. and time blocking. but
it really works. small reminder. it works even when, like me,
someone has serious case of ADHD. but its slightly different and
there are extremes on both end. where it does not work or it works
to well. but it always work. what I am trying to say if you feel
its not efficient you still have to feel it out until you find how
it works for you in whatever form it works.
jraph wrote 15 hours 25 min ago:
Yep.
When there are no clear tasks, I sometime leave a syntax error at the
place work should continue tomorrow. This is quite effective. It can
make the answer to the "Where was I?" question immediate instead of
taking a few seconds and this is one fewer barrier.
getlawgdon wrote 2 hours 58 min ago:
I like this. Good trick.
jenny91 wrote 7 hours 48 min ago:
Another similar thing is to leave an easy sentence half-finished so
when you come back to it, there's an obvious first thing to do and
hop back in.
dogman1050 wrote 11 hours 28 min ago:
I've always used "$$". It's probably a subliminal thing.
apwell23 wrote 12 hours 36 min ago:
I always leave work( for lunch, for home) at failing test . Try to
anyways.
euroderf wrote 14 hours 45 min ago:
Yes. It's funny how this kind of trick can instantly snap the
entire working context back into your mind. Essentially leaving you
free to forget about the context during your free time and
overnight. Truly a useful "hack".
It's also useful to jot down a quick list of (say) three items that
are at the top of your mind when you leave work for the day, and
they too will help with a context restore.
Henchman21 wrote 8 hours 22 min ago:
"focus division multiplexing"
bravesoul2 wrote 14 hours 11 min ago:
Also just chuck Todo comments in the code
The magic of Git means you can immediately find them in the
working index and get back on to it. Just remember to remove them
before the commit.
rmwaite wrote 5 hours 20 min ago:
If you do this often enough you can create a simple commit hook
that searches for these markers and will fail to commit if it
finds them.
diggan wrote 12 hours 50 min ago:
> The magic of Git means you can immediately find them in the
working index
How does git help you find certain texts in files? `grep`
should do the trick just fine, unless I misunderstand what
"chuck Todo comments in the code" mean, the code lives on your
disk no?
bravesoul2 wrote 12 hours 41 min ago:
Grep works too. I just spend a lot of time in git or tools
that wrap it. It's an unconscious habit to check the status
and diffs when I open my editor.
diggan wrote 12 hours 37 min ago:
Yeah I mean I use the git cli exclusively too, and use it
switch contexts, but I'm not sure why'd I use it to find
stuff that is already on disk. But, you do you, was just
trying to understand if there was any benefits I didn't
knew about :)
cjbillington wrote 12 hours 43 min ago:
They'll show up in the diff.
Grep will find them too, but any in the diff you'll know for
sure were added by you.
diggan wrote 12 hours 41 min ago:
Parent mentioned specifically finding them from the index,
so they've been added but not committed, so they're not
even remote nor have an author associated with it, yet.
And why it matters to get them from the diff if they're on
disk already? Literally one command to find all of them,
rather than going through git?
bravesoul2 wrote 11 hours 3 min ago:
One advantage of git is it shows you any uncommitted
changes. Great way to get context the next day of where
you were up to anyway even if you didn't use TODO to make
it searchable.
kernelsanderz wrote 18 hours 56 min ago:
Iâll read this tomorrow
litoE wrote 19 hours 32 min ago:
Of course the correct term is procrastination, and not procastination.
But we'll fix it tomorrow.
tomhow wrote 18 hours 21 min ago:
We've bent the guidelines by changing the title from the article's
original title to one with correct spelling.
djmips wrote 18 hours 31 min ago:
That's quite amusing. SMH.
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