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on Gopher (inofficial)
URI Visit Hacker News on the Web
COMMENT PAGE FOR:
URI KDE is now my favorite desktop
trevithick wrote 2 min ago:
Why blur what's almost guaranteed to be RFC1918 private network info?
My IP is 192.168.1.56, come and get me hackers.
adamkf wrote 9 min ago:
I see these posts a lot, but this really does not match my experience.
I find I run into many more bugs in kde than in gnome or other desktop
environments. This bug made kde absolutely unusable for me: [1] (I
think this bug is still present in X11, but I've moved on to Wayland.)
The other bug I run into constantly is that "expose" sometimes makes
all the windows invisible. The only fix is logging out and logging in
again. I've seen this across a number of different distros. Gnome is
mostly boring and just works for me.
URI [1]: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=365255
Tade0 wrote 15 min ago:
I returned to Linux when Microsoft started aggressively pushing Windows
11 and phasing out 10.
I admit I previously had only a vague idea about KDE's existence -
mostly through my know-it-all friend claiming that the Windows Vista/7
look was inspired by it.
Anyway, I installed it as GNOME is not to my taste and indeed it was
the Windows experience without the Windows issues, save for some
weirdness like e.g. Open In Terminal taking its sweet time to actually
open.
Initially I was missing HDR, but Plasma 6 supports it and both Chromium
and Firefox (though the latter in developer edition only and behind a
flag at that) appear to have shipped their implementations, though I
haven't managed to get it to work yet - the important part is that
there's no indefinite delivery timeline any more.
wiether wrote 15 min ago:
The main reason it took me so long to use Linux as my main OS on
desktop was because Gnome is the default DE on the Debian based distros
I tried.
The day I discovered KDE is the day I switched to Linux as my main OS
on desktop.
It works, it's functional, it's a bit _nerdy_... Exactly what I want in
a DE.
Meanwhile, Gnome always felt like a low-cost version of MacOS.
I'm glad we have options so everyone can find what they are looking
for!
I'm just mad at myself for not finding out about KDE before. It's 100%
on me.
askonomm wrote 15 min ago:
Really the main reason KDE wins for me is the flawless fractional
scaling support that no other distro comes even close to.
wraptile wrote 17 min ago:
KDE is truly incredible these days. I'm running Plasma 6 + Karousel[1]
for scrolling window management and some custom kwin scripts for
incredible maximalist experience. It does everything and does it
beautifully [1] 1 -
URI [1]: https://i.postimg.cc/nznZwg44/Screenshot-20250918-213910.png
URI [2]: https://github.com/peterfajdiga/karousel
Beijinger wrote 20 min ago:
I have been happy long time with the Moksha Desktop.
URI [1]: https://www.bodhilinux.com/moksha-desktop/
stavros wrote 26 min ago:
I really like KDE and use it as my daily driver, but I'm really peeved
that the "close" button isn't at the very top right of a maximised
window. Instead, I have to hit the top right (extremely easy) and then
go a bit down and to the left to actually hit the button. For all its
crap, Windows really got that right since 95.
nulld3v wrote 14 min ago:
Are you using a non-default theme or are you using custom KWin
scripts (e.g. to enable "window gaps")? Both my laptop & desktop run
near-default KDE and moving the mouse to the top-right + clicking
always closes the maximized window.
canterburry wrote 30 min ago:
Could someone relate KDE to PopOS or Ubuntu for me?
I've been on Ubuntu and PopOS for the last 15 years.
lionkor wrote 3 min ago:
Ubuntu and PopOS are linux distributions, KDE is a desktop
environment that you can find/install in lots of distributions, such
as kubuntu for example.
lionkor wrote 31 min ago:
I was super happy with KDE, until I found that i3 has a better paradigm
for what I want. I tried Gnome on Fedora for a while now on my laptop;
i don't mind it but KDE beats it in usability.
bjoli wrote 32 min ago:
I would have been a very satisfied Aeon user had it not been for
battling gnome. If you look at my comment history, I have described the
issues I have had. After about 7 months I used KDE on a friend's
computer and switched the same day.
I think the best thing is that I don't have to install anything to make
it work like I want, and as such there are no incompatible plugins that
leaves me with a broken desktop functionality for a week or two every
time there is a new release.
That is an annoyance, but the most annoying things are all the small
things that just don't work. Focus issues. Multiple screen issues. Date
format issues.
kevinfiol wrote 39 min ago:
Add me to the list of people happy with KDE. I tried every desktop
environment under the sun over the past fifteen years. I even wrote off
KDE foolishly many years ago simply because I thought it looked gaudy.
After Plasma 6 dropped, I decided to try it, and it quickly became my
favorite Linux experience. Coming from GNOME, I was pleasantly
surprised that many GNOME extensions I would rely on had equivalent
feature functionality built into KDE (things like a Dock, Clipboard
Manager, KWin Scripts, Tiling/Fancy Zones, animation configuration). I
can pretty much echo everything said by the blog author here. (EDIT:
Not to mention that so many of my GNOME extensions would break in
between upgrades, or crash regularly, meanwhile KDE has been rock solid
for me these past 9 months).
I still think GNOME is slightly prettier, but KDE is infinitely more
usable for me.
BoxOfRain wrote 4 min ago:
KDE is my daily driver at home and work now, it really is fantastic!
One minor thing I love is how the old-school wobbly windows, desktop
cube etc are still something you can toggle easily.
ktpsns wrote 10 min ago:
This is exactly also my story. Was a long term XFCE user (this was
long before lxde became popular) because Gnome/KDE felt too heavy for
my old computers. These days, KDE still has the silly loader window
(no other DM has it) but oh boy the features you get once it is
running are outstanding.
This is not only plasma, but all the applications are top-notch
quality. Just to name a few: Krita, Kate, the office suite.
innis226 wrote 45 min ago:
I've used dwm forever, switched to kde and realized iâd been
maintaining my desktop more than using it. Drivers worked, screens
behaved, no audio/mic hickups.
iberator wrote 46 min ago:
I miss good old KDE1/2 desktop :)
It would be hilariously fast nowadays and totally usable, all under
like 64mb of RAM :)
kirito1337 wrote 52 min ago:
The only reason I don't use KDE is because it takes too much RAM out of
my PC (i work with 2gb ram)
sombragris wrote 57 min ago:
I have been a KDE user since KDE 1.x in Red Hat Linux 6.2, back in
2000, and used KDE almost exclusively for my Linux desktop since KDE
2.2. Right now using Plasma 6.4.5.
In all that time, I was quite disappointed to see major distro after
major distro (and even Sun Microsystems back in the day) choose GNOME
over KDE/Plasma as their default desktops. How could they choose GNOME
when KDE/Plasma is/was (in my very subjective opinion) way better? Go
figure. Still until today, and with the exception of Steam Desktop,
it's disappointing to see that Plasma is not the default/preferred
desktop environment in (almost?) all major distros.
So, it's really refreshing to see posts like these. I like when someone
finally "gets it" and realizes the advantages and potential Plasma
offers.
In case you can't use Plasma, I'd recommend (in no particular order)
LXQt, Cinnamon, MATE or XFCe as adequate options. But if you haven't,
try Plasma, and customize it to your heart's content. More often than
not, you'll end up liking it quite a bit.
dec0dedab0de wrote 53 min ago:
I vaguely remember that the shift to gnome was because of fear around
QT licensing.
flkiwi wrote 58 min ago:
I tend to prefer gnome's simplicity and its desktop metaphor, though
I'm a niri guy now. But KDE is excellent. It's fast, pretty,
customizable, and enjoyable to use. My gripe with it is that the sheer
number of options and their constant presence in the UI does not play
nicely with my gently spectrum brain. It's not even that I can't resist
the urge to fiddle--I can, no problem--but that the presence of all the
options causes anxiety. (There are also a few, to my eye, inelegant
spacing quirks, but nothing I can't ignore.)
Having said that, it's a marginal difference. KDE is on my kid's
computer and I use that from time to time without imploding in a ball
of emotional-intellectual panic.
sho_hn wrote 43 min ago:
I have to say "the computer UI you can use without imploding in a
ball of emotional-intellectual panic" is probably the best front of
the box quote I've run across in a while ;-)
slicktux wrote 1 hour 0 min ago:
I use KDE but I setup my desktop with two panelsâ¦the default launcher
panel on the bottom and I add an extra panel atop with the clock and
icons for applications I use the most.
ThePyCoder wrote 1 hour 1 min ago:
KDE has been crazy good for me.
It's a very complete package, it has a quick launcher that's good, a
good screenshot tool and very very nice window management features.
When combined with libinput gestures, you can get macOS style three
finger swipe between desktops. And not just a swap, but a nice swipe
animation that pauses when you do on the touchpad.
On a laptop, this is such a big timesaver.
Its bottom bar icon handling is very good, customising is easy, and the
settings panel is very clear. Everything is just so polished.
Then there is kde connect as well, it integrates so effertlessly. Kde
is truly a software powerhouse, well done.
vid wrote 1 hour 1 min ago:
KDE is not just more configurable, they pack incredible innovation,
like KDE Connect. Not to mention their semantic desktop ideas, which
have been watered down post Nepomuk, nearly 20 years later still ahead
of its time. It's the best of open source and user choice to have this
international and often quite different source of new ideas and
abilities.
Zak wrote 1 hour 2 min ago:
I've been a happy KDE user for years, but I recently discovered that
Gnome is surprisingly good on a tablet. KDE is usable, but feels about
as touch-native as Windows does. Gnome is easily as good a tablet
experience as an iPad.
There's only one fly in the ointment: Gnome's onscreen keyboard is both
terrible and difficult to replace.
sho_hn wrote 54 min ago:
Maybe of interest: One of our recently-elected community-wide goals
is to improve the Input story, and we started a new on-screen
keyboard project called Plasma Keyboard in context of that. It's a
bit experimental and a very early effort, but maybe something
promising for you to track in some way.
Zak wrote 22 min ago:
Much better than the Gnome OSK despite signs that it's early (I got
some transparent flickering over the panel).
I'd like it to have more punctuation and special characters
available as long presses on letters, and for it to have a terminal
mode with arrows, tab, ctrl, etc....
This comment was typed on plasma-keyboard.
Zak wrote 49 min ago:
I'll try it out. I have both Gnome and KDE on my tablet, but
haven't taken much time to try to customize KDE to be a good tablet
experience.
CuriouslyC wrote 1 hour 4 min ago:
KDE is going to take over the world. It already took over the browser
world (yay konqueror), with the SteamDeck leading the way it's going to
take over the consumer peripheral world as well.
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote 1 hour 7 min ago:
Favorite? Or least unfavorite?
pessimizer wrote 1 hour 8 min ago:
I've been feeling guilty for not switching to KDE for years now,
because I hate fiddling with desktops. I like the defaults to be
boring, and basically to be Windows XP. KDE always struck me as
annoying, but 1) MATE is bad and buggy, Caja most of all; and 2) as a
Redhat and a Gnome hater, I really have no right to still be using it.
Is there an easy way to get the Windows XP/Gnome 2 experience out of
KDE?
It would be magic if there were a Debian package called "I don't care
about my desktop, it takes me months to change the wallpaper from the
default."
I do not care about beauty, I only care about stability (i.e. my
desktop from 30 years ago.) If I could get WinXP out of XFCE, I would
switch to that, but my attempts have been disappointing ergonomically.
All of the webcruft and sparkle in Cinnamon is also very offputting,
although I've been happy to recommend it to others who don't have the
same irritation triggers as me.
thyristan wrote 9 min ago:
IceWM hasn't changed in more than a decade. ;)
whalesalad wrote 1 hour 10 min ago:
> For example, the network applet gives lots of information that in
other operational systems are either not available or difficult to
access.
On macOS use option-click on the Wifi indicator in the top bar to get a
"debug" version of the menu, with all the same data.
nartho wrote 1 hour 11 min ago:
I realized I really like tiling better than floating windows and I like
to manage them with keyboard mainly. Hyprland has been very good for
that. Everything fits neatly, I can switch desktops and I don't have to
move windows around
sirwhinesalot wrote 1 hour 12 min ago:
We now live in a world where KDE looks nicer, more professional, and
more consistent than the latest macOS. I don't know how that happened,
and KDE isn't even particularly nice looking, but here we are.
For many years now KDE has focused on polish, bug fixing and
"nice-to-have" improvements rather than major redesigns, and it paid
off.
crossroadsguy wrote 15 min ago:
To folks using Asahi Linux:
I looked at some Asahi Linux videos and it always shows KDE and the
interface is Windows like (or what I call Windows like). I never
liked that and that is single biggest reason I never tried KDE. I
know it's Linux and KDE and GNOME can pretty much made to look like
each other (i.e their default look and feel). Is it trivial on Asahi
Linux or needs a lot of tweaking?
Something like what ElementaryOS would look like - look/feel/UX wise
ElementaryOS has been my gold standard sine it released and the last
I checked it still felt that way. But since anything other than what
Asahi Linux installs and support by default, i.e. Fedora Remix, is
neither recommended nor fares well on Mac so I don't think I can use
ElementaryOS (which is essentially Ubuntu LTS) really. Even Asahi
Linux team recommends KDE.
Also - can one access certain Mac folders in Asahi (e.g. ~/Pictures)?
And is it even recommended, if it's possible (Security wise)?
(I have been exploring/searching on Asahi and I am gearing up to use
it on my M1 MacBook Pro - will be using/trying Linux desktop after
more than a decade)
everdrive wrote 16 min ago:
Major changes aren't even _desirable_ in UI. People kind of
emotionally enjoy novelty, however when it actually comes to using a
computer consistency is superior to absolute excellence. Figuring out
where settings and buttons are just because you ran software updates
is a total waste of time on both ends; it wastes the user's time, and
was a waste of time to develop. Maybe I'll switch from gnome to KDE
this weekend, this looks promising.
baq wrote 4 min ago:
Glad to know I'm not alone. As I grow older moving stuff around
just to make it prettier doesn't do much except make me angry that
'they' changed things for no reason again.
distances wrote 19 min ago:
KDE usability really started improving when the Visual Design Group
was launched during the KDE 5 cycle, spearheaded by Jens Reuterberg.
There was a real cool atmosphere of designer-developer cooperation
which quickly led to very sleek results that persist to this day.
VDG tackled (and tackles) not only design for the desktop itself, but
also for KDE applications that had never seen a designer's touch
before.
I've been long a KDE user, even through the 4.0 troubles, but also
the first to admit that it used to look clunky. Looking at old
screenshots is a quick reminder of how far this initiative has taken
it.
uncircle wrote 10 min ago:
VDG must be so busy that my #1 feature request for KDE, support for
smart copy&paste in Konsole, has been stuck in bikeshedding hell
for almost 5 years because the maintainer didn't want to merge an
optional feature without the VDG go-ahead :(
I love open source and have been running Linux since 1999, but my
experience of contributing to both KDE and GNOME is your PRs never
go anywhere unless you're part of the inner cabal of maintainers,
otherwise any small bugfix or feature goes into bikeshedding mode,
and it's the reason I don't contribute any more.
That said, I run KDE now after two decades of GNOME. It's pretty
good and has been looking good for a while now.
notmyjob wrote 21 min ago:
I feel like naming everything with a âKâ, like how some families
name all their kids with names that start with the same letter, is
the real genius of KDE. Who doesnât like those kinds of families.
distances wrote 4 min ago:
> Who doesnât like those kinds of families.
You'll find those people also in these comments :) Can't please
everyone, which is totally fair and expected.
betap wrote 31 min ago:
You are absolutely right on KDE focusing on polish and bug fixes.
Back in 2014(?) it was weird, confusing, and never seemed to work
right for me. Now, it is my go-to Linux desktop environment.
ActionHank wrote 37 min ago:
It's solid, things are where you expect, beginners can use it with
very little guidance, and experts can turn off whatever they don't
want or need.
Super solid, <3 for the KDE team and product.
whatevaa wrote 44 min ago:
And yet people still complain about some inconsistencies in UI.
islon wrote 29 min ago:
There's two types of desktops: the ones people complain about, and
the ones nobody uses.
ninetyninenine wrote 26 min ago:
I canât stand those smug one-liners â they flatten reality
instead of reflecting it.
Reality is... often-times the best things are often unused. And
if these things were hypothetically used... there'd be
significantly less complaints than the status quo.
ActionHank wrote 38 min ago:
These people should be forced to use the
hair-covered-gum-on-the-floor style UI experience that Windows has
become and then perhaps they get to have an opinion.
izacus wrote 18 min ago:
I find KDE still worse than both Windows 11 and macOS. Sorry, but
the UI is just such a mash of margins, borders and icons that it
looks downright janky in a way that even Win11 doesn't.
secalex wrote 4 min ago:
Um, Windows 11 still hasnât moved all the necessary utilities
and administrative panels over to the windowing toolkit
Microsoft introduced in 2012, and MacOS 26(??) is⦠hideous.
swader999 wrote 36 min ago:
There's a hint of cat urine mixed in too.
barrkel wrote 1 hour 14 min ago:
I've used Linux laptops for work since 2013. I finally switched to
Linux on the desktop earlier this year, after getting a laptop and
experiencing Windows 11.
The laptop isn't running Linux yet, I'm not confident the battery
lifetime story is great.
But, I settled on KDE as well. Gnome just wasn't configurable enough.
There were a number of rough edges that I couldn't find a setting in
Gnome to fix, so I switched over.
I'm running zfs on root, so I can have snapshots (every 5 minutes) and
incremental backups to my NAS, also running zfs. Using zfsbootmenu.
Which was interesting to set up, I learned a lot more about UEFI,
framebuffer drivers, kexec kernel handoffs etc. than I ever expected
to.
vladvasiliu wrote 45 min ago:
> The laptop isn't running Linux yet, I'm not confident the battery
lifetime story is great.
Depending on the laptop, you may be surprised. My HP EliteBooks (800
g8 series, AMD and Intel) are an absolutely better experience on
Linux than Windows, it's not even close. I'm thinking specifically
about sleep, of all things.
The other day, my 2020 845g8 (amd) laptop crapped out during sleep
while on windows, but was not actually dead, since it was hot to the
point that it heated a different laptop which was lying underneath (a
14" mbp, so a pretty chunky piece of metal). I had to forcefully
power it off. I was under the impression that some windows or driver
update had fixed this, but apparently not. This never happened on
linux, ever, which is my main os for this particular machine since
day one and I never turn off the laptop, only reboot it for a kernel
update. The Intel one is fairly reliable on Windows, but it did crash
a few times (garbled screen).
Battery life on the Intel model is better under linux (around +25%).
On the Amd I can't comment, since I rarely use it on windows, and
basically never on battery.
At the office I have a 27" 5k screen which I have to use at 200%.
Windows is basically always a blurry mess for some reason, although
it recognizes the correct resolution. The only way to be sure to have
sharp output is by booting it up with the screen attached. Which then
goes to hell when the screen shuts off (think going to the toilet).
Wayland on Linux (sway / arch) just works and is always sharp.
I also can basically not connect my sony bluetooth headphones when
running Windows. They connect instantly with LDAC under linux.
wzdd wrote 1 hour 16 min ago:
Just incidental (KDE is indeed great), but in case anyone is wondering,
you can see similar wifi information on macOS by holding option while
clicking the icon in the menu bar.
moondev wrote 1 hour 18 min ago:
For a second I thought this was submitted by DHH and I was ready to
grab some popcorn.
ajuc wrote 1 hour 19 min ago:
KDE 3.5 was the best Linux Desktop by far. Then they messed up with
4.0. Good to know it's back at the top.
rbc wrote 10 min ago:
The Trinity Desktop Environment is still carrying the KDE 3.5 torch.
The Q4OS Linux distribution (Debian based) provides it as a primary
desktop.
whafro wrote 1 hour 19 min ago:
Haven't been a Linux daily driver in years, but I love that KDE
continues to have such an impact.
Reminder that its built-in browser Konqueror debuted the KHTML
rendering engine circa ~1999, which was then forked to become WebKit,
and now (including all subsequent forks) powers something approaching
90% of web views globally. Pretty amazing!
t_mann wrote 1 hour 21 min ago:
Not just the Plasma desktop, there is a lot of KDE software that works
well even outside of the KDE desktop, and some of it is really
excellent. I find Kate to be a criminally underrated editor for
example. It never comes up in VSCode vs vim/... discussions, but I
think it's an excellent VSCode replacement if you're looking for
something more familiar. Currently my favorite editor hands down.
whitehexagon wrote 1 hour 25 min ago:
I've had Asahi installed on my M1 since I bought it, but only just
switched to it as my main development workhorse (upgrading to Asahi
Fedora remix 42).
I have to say I am really impressed with KDE, and the large selection
of decent applications. I'm new to linux desktop, but I already hope
that nothing changes, because to me it already seems complete.
The best part of the experience is feeling like I own my computer
again.
tripplyons wrote 1 hour 22 min ago:
I wish Asahi worked on my M3. It is a great effort, and sadly, they
don't have enough resources to focus on the newer chips yet.
giancarlostoro wrote 1 hour 23 min ago:
KDE has always been like this since KDE 4 they have a consistent app
UI so if you just install from the hundreds of KDE based apps you
will feel like it was a hand crafted OS. KDE is more consistent than
Windows is these days. On Windows you see several decades of UI in
core system components.
alabhyajindal wrote 1 hour 25 min ago:
Love KDE. Can others share their experience of using the same desktop
environment across distributions? Is there a difference? I have only
used KDE on Fedora and it's great but getting the itch to try out
something new. Void Linux maybe.
E39M5S62 wrote 37 min ago:
I run KDE on Void - both on my workstation and my ARM laptop. It runs
perfectly on both. The only thing I've noticed that you'll 'lose' on
Void is the 'Applications View' in System Monitor; that's only
because it relies on systemd functionality that Void doesn't have
because of runit.
OscarCunningham wrote 1 hour 1 min ago:
I've tried KDE in Debian and NixOS, and the experience is exactly the
same. In many ways the choice of distro is much less impactful than
the choice of desktop environment.
abhishekpathak wrote 1 hour 28 min ago:
As an outsider, it is impressive to see the incremental, "chipping away
at problems piecemeal" approach KDE has been taking since their Plasma
release a decade ago. Slow, steady and intentional.
To think that almost all of this is volunteer work makes it so much
more heartwarming.
incomingpain wrote 1 hour 28 min ago:
Plasma 6 has come up a few times recently as pretty awesome. I havent
touched it since Plasma 4 eons ago.
I'm pretty happy with budgie though. But I think I will have to give
KDE a try some day.
timw4mail wrote 1 hour 29 min ago:
KDE has been my preferred desktop environment since I started playing
with linux sometime in the KDE 3 days.
I'm glad the wobbly windows desktop effect has stuck around too:
absolutely unnecessary, but it's silly and fun.
My biggest complaint has nothing to do with KDE itself, but the fact
that GTK apps are so ugly by default. QT apps look fine in GTK desktop
environments though. (At least KDE has easy built-in settings for
handling GTK theming these days...I remember it being more of an issue
a while back)
mcdonje wrote 1 hour 29 min ago:
Just switched over from gnome. Overall, I'm happy.
Gnome is configurable, but in a way that isn't really well integrated.
It seems buggy to me, but I think it's because my preferences aren't
standard.
For instance, I like having my dock on the left, and I like top bar
stuff to be in the dock, so the dock is the only thing that can take up
screen space, and I like the dock to disappear when I'm not using it.
Simple, right? Can't do it in the regular configuration. Can do part of
it in tweaks, which is a separate configuration app, but then some of
it requires extensions. So, that's 3 places to go to
What's it called when hiding complexity makes it more complex?
So, that gets me there, but then the dock fails to hide half the time
on zoom calls. And when I unlock the screen, I can see the empty space
where the top bar used to be for a quick flash before the full sized
app window goes back to where I left it.
So far, I don't have those issues with KDE. I don't like the annoying
and krappy branding with the launcher icon and more than half the apps
having a K in the name, but you can change the launcher icon and use
whatever apps you want.
politelemon wrote 50 min ago:
When you say switched from gnome, is it on the same os?
nixosbestos wrote 42 min ago:
Yes, changing distros to change DEs is simply nonsensical behavior.
If one's distro doesn't support multiple DEs then it's probably
time to reconsider if taking reddit's advice on the ArchLinux-spin
of the quarter is actually a good idea.
matheusmoreira wrote 35 min ago:
> ArchLinux-spin of the quarter
What's the point of this? People should just use the real Arch
Linux.
mcdonje wrote 44 min ago:
Yes, debian. Although I had previously been using gnome on other
distros, like ubuntu.
import wrote 1 hour 7 min ago:
I also donât like the branding and icons tbh but it brings a lot
consistency in terms of overall experience.
kccqzy wrote 1 hour 14 min ago:
> Can do part of it in tweaks, which is a separate configuration app,
but then some of it requires extensions.
I'm not sure why you think requiring extensions is a bad idea. I have
tried out at least 20 GNOME extensions, and I appreciate the flexible
underlying architecture to allow extensions to flourish. With
extensions, the same GNOME can have Windows XP style taskbars or
Mac-style docks or i3-style tiling or anything in between.
leleat wrote 23 min ago:
The problem is that the extension experience can be really bad.
There is no extension API; instead Extensions have (almost) full
access to GNOME Shell's code.
This makes them incredibly powerful and flexible... but also
fragile. Extensions can crash GNOME Shell/mutter. On Wayland that
means your entire session goes down with GNOME Shell. Extensions
can interfere with each other, and if you are an extension
developer, you may need to update (or at least check) your
extension every 6 months (GNOMEs release cycle).
skydhash wrote 3 min ago:
Extension lives in the same memory space as the shell, so itâs
up to the developer to restrict themselves to not touch internal
API. Also, GNOME give you plenty of warning in the changelog (and
the changes are usually small).
kokada wrote 28 min ago:
The last time I used Gnome as my primary desktop (that was still in
the Gnome 3 days) extensions broke at every update. I was still
using Arch Linux at the time, so it was annoying because every ~6
months a few of my extensions would be broken for 1~2 weeks.
AFAIK Gnome extensions still doesn't have a stable API, so this
issue is still present today.
andrea76 wrote 33 min ago:
I've used gnome for 7 years in Fedora. Often certain extensions
stopped working betweenv after Fedora big upgrades (i.e. from 32 to
33). The JavaScript engine that runs extensions had many memory
leaks bugs so I had to kill the gnome-shell process on a TTY
session.
After 7 years I was fed up and switched to KDE and never looked
back
mcdonje wrote 58 min ago:
Extensibility can be nice, but the experience has a lot of
friction. If you want something that isn't bog standard, you need
to get or make an extension.
Making one is more work than what I can do from basic configuration
settings in KDE. I want to spend my time on other projects. The
marketplace suffers from the same problems as most marketplaces.
Plenty of unmaintained extensions. No guarantees of quality. Now I
need to do research on extensions instead of just changing a
configuration setting.
The existence of extensions allows gnome devs to figure they don't
have to support basic features because someone will make an
extension for it.
Extension configurations don't live in the same place as standard
configurations.
The experience is fragmented and has friction.
cosmic_cheese wrote 1 hour 4 min ago:
Supporting extensions is great, but it needs to be done properly.
GNOME doesnât provide a proper extension API which forces devs to
muck with GNOME internals, which makes extensions much more flakey
than they need to be and causes them to break every other GNOME
release.
sylens wrote 1 hour 35 min ago:
I hadn't really kept up with the development of KDE until I got a Steam
Deck and booted into desktop mode. Once there, I was quite surprised to
find a really performant, attractive, easy-to-use desktop environment.
My previous KDE experience was probably a decade prior to that and I
didn't really enjoy it that much, so it was a refreshing experience.
Now it is definitely my preferred Linux desktop environment as well.
christophilus wrote 1 hour 36 min ago:
I just find it ugly vs Gnome or Mac. Inconsistent padding, font sizes,
colors. Admittedly, this was maybe 5 years ago. Has that improved?
These days, I daily drive Niri and love it. I love the workflow of a
scrolling WM. I love that I can configure it via a single text file in
the standard configuration directory, I love how lightweight it is.
Itâs just about perfect for me.
rafaelmn wrote 10 min ago:
No it has not. Despite the praises it is getting here it still looks
like the programmer art, which fits with a certain crowd, but if you
are (like me) into the Gnome/Mac type of look - its still gives
Windows XP vibes.
nixosbestos wrote 41 min ago:
> Admittedly, this was maybe 5 years ago.
Hahhaha, absolutely classic linux on HN post. Couldn't be better
written satire.
Except that I guess you at least acknowledged it. Which
non-abandonded OS/DE hasn't significantly changed in 5 years? I can't
think of one. Maybe GNOME, but they were early movers and everyone
hated them for that.
whalesalad wrote 51 min ago:
Here is my Debian 12 / KDE setup. With the "Inter" font, macOS icons
(whitesur) and a little theming (klassy) I quite like it. Running
this on a 5K Apple display and everything is crisp.
desktop: [1] code setup:
URI [1]: https://s3.whalesalad.com/images/hn/debian12.png
URI [2]: https://s3.whalesalad.com/images/hn/vscode2025.png
Squarex wrote 1 hour 11 min ago:
Me too. I have used it in KDE 4 times when I was in high school, but
it still seems to miss the design things. It is great for
customization and functionality, but the design itself still seems
off. This just is not looking good [0] and it is presented as a
showcase here.
[0]
URI [1]: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/thiagokokada/blog/main/pos...
aeve890 wrote 1 hour 4 min ago:
>This just is not looking good [0] and it is presented as a
showcase here.
I agree. Something looks off about it, but I can't put my finger on
what. It's the empty space? The fonts? I don't know exactly.
osigurdson wrote 1 hour 13 min ago:
Ubuntu's Gnome is ugly imo, but stock Gnome on Arch is incredibly
nice. Of course I really only use a terminal and a browser but still,
Gnome + Ghosty + Firefox on Arch is just great.
tuananh wrote 1 hour 20 min ago:
One day, I'm going to try niri. I'm just too lazy to migrate my i3
setup right now :D
vladvasiliu wrote 1 hour 8 min ago:
What's special about niri? Asking as a happy user of i3 for... I
can't remember how long. It's one of the few pieces of software I
don't have to think about, it just gets out of my way.
Actually, the only situations where I think about it is when I'm
driving a mac or a win and the window management gets on my nerves,
although I'm a generally a pretty chill guy.
pluc wrote 9 min ago:
i3 is really hard to move on from. Everything is the app and
configuration you want since it doesn't have traditional
"desktop" suite of apps, so by design it is literally built for
your exact wants and needs. Same goes for fluxbox/openbox setups
imo
gempir wrote 1 hour 21 min ago:
I would recommend checking out Cosmic by System76. It's getting a
beta very soon but I've been using the alpha and straight their git
main for months now and it's very stable.
It looks amazing and feels super snappy, I have never had such a
painless Linux desktop experience.
It even has a tiling window manager functionality built-in that was
enough for me to sway away from i3/sway.
But it also just works like a normal desktop that a non-technical
user can use with ease.
URI [1]: https://bsky.app/profile/system76.bsky.social/post/3lylz3cfy...
dimgl wrote 1 hour 1 min ago:
I'm actually super excited about this project. Out of curiosity,
does the compositor they use have HDR support? It's one of the
features I miss on Linux desktops.
FirmwareBurner wrote 1 hour 22 min ago:
>I just find it ugly vs Gnome or Mac. Inconsistent padding, font
sizes, colors.
IDK mate, I care more about the utility than the looks since I spend
my time using the DE, not hanging it on my wall to admire its
artistic attention to detail.
Like I'm sure those inconsistencies exist, but am I the only one
whose brain just filters them out like they just don't exist? Kind of
like how your brain filters out your nose from your eyesight and you
only become aware of it when you look for it.
And to me and my use case and formed habits, utility wise KDE >>>
Gnome by a wide margin, though KDE still has some annoyances I wish
they would tackle, but for a free product, I can't complain.
izacus wrote 13 min ago:
"I don't care about this bad thing" isn't really a very good
response to someone's "this is kinda bad" post, is it?
Obviously a lot of people don't care as much - KDE is a popular
desktop!
squigz wrote 37 min ago:
Poor design can and does impact usability for a lot of users. If
you care about the utility, you should care about e.g. wasted
screen space with extraneous padding.
cosmic_cheese wrote 53 min ago:
That kind of thing is very difficult for visually oriented folks to
filter out. Iâm in that crowd. No matter how many times I see a
poorly laid out dialog, it remains almost as abrasive as the first
time I saw it. It can become a major distraction, especially as
someone whoâs capable of writing code.
graemep wrote 1 hour 12 min ago:
I agree with that. I really do not care about the inconsistencies -
I did not even notice them until other people pointed them out.
There are themes that look nice to me.
None of that really matters compared to usability and
functionality. Most of the time I have one panel showing and
everything else I can see is applications. The applications are a
mix of things anyway.
jbstack wrote 1 hour 12 min ago:
I think there's some truth to this (utility is overall more
important), but also some falsehood (looks matter too). Aesthetics
affect your enthusiasm and therefore your productivity. This is
why, for example, most people would rather work in a room with
large glass windows overlooking a lake than in a room with a small
window overlooking a factory even if they are functionally the
same.
flohofwoe wrote 1 hour 27 min ago:
KDE Plasma 6 looks absolutely gorgeous on my Kubuntu laptop with
highdpi OLED display, and that's coming from a mainly-Mac-user :)
(this wasn't my main reason to switch from Gnome though, I just
couldn't stand the random design decisions in each Gnome update
anymore, and generally Gnome never really clicked with me the way KDE
immediately did - which is also strange since Gnome is supposed to be
the 'Mac desktop clone', while KDE is supposed to be the 'Windows
desktop clone' heh)
amlib wrote 1 hour 3 min ago:
I really dislike how people present KDE and Gnome as being "clones"
of Windows and MacOS. GNOME specially is so distinct (be it for
good and bad reasons) that it deserves to be considered it's own
thing. I can't stand MacOS with all it's Macosisms that are
ingrained since it's Macintosh days. GNOME being grown for PC
usages has none of these issues. Window management is also a breeze
and easy to pickup rather than a byzantine mess. The only thing
they really share is a nice, sparse look & feel.
KDE does have a lot more similarities to Windows but saying it's a
clone might put the wrong idea on peoples mind when they transition
from Microsoft's system.
sho_hn wrote 1 hour 33 min ago:
> Admittedly, this was maybe 5 years ago. Has that improved?
It may have, yes!
One of the ways we run the KDE community is that we have an annual
process to elect community-wide goals, which then have their own
leadership team, infra, budget, etc. The goals themselves are
long-running, i.e. it's not one year and done, either.
In about 2020/21 one of the goals that won/was added was titled
"Improve Consistency across the Board", which lead to e.g. a
comprehensive update of the HIG, renewed efforts on the controls
library, and many cleanup passes across the products to get them up
to date and in line.
It's an ongoing process and I'm sure plenty of people can still point
to a pet peeve or an ugly corner - we're happy to have discerning
users with high expectations - but the general state of things should
be much better than half a decade ago.
There's also a next-gen styling/theming system project called Union
in the works along with a next-gen design system developed in
collaboration to take things to the next level in a few years, but
we're taking our time to get it really right instead of pulling a
Liquid Glass (one lesson we've learned through the years is that
clawing your way back from reputational damage is really hard, and
compromising on release quality is never the way to go). You can see
annual updates on this e.g. in the feeds from our flagship dev
conference.
ndiddy wrote 20 min ago:
BTW, not sure if you were involved with this at all but I really
appreciate all the work that's gone into making the Kirigami/Qt
Quick KDE programs feel less janky. It's still not perfect (don't
know if it ever will be unless Qt releases their AoT QML compiler
as open source) but it's gotten MUCH better since the early KDE 6
releases.
arximboldi wrote 1 hour 10 min ago:
The screenshot in the OP article show already quite a few issues.
It takes a trained eye to be able to articulate a lot of the
issues. I feel like Gmome is designed by professional designers but
KDE mostly by developers. I do share the sentiment that Gnome is
often too rigid, but the design is coherent, consistent and
aesthetically well articulated. I use Hyprland with mostly Gnome
apps (have considered Niri too!)
But I don't mean to trash KDE. Some people don't care about that
padding or visual layering or whatever but do care about the extra
options and features. At the end of the day, I'm just happy that
we're on a platform where all these approaches have their space and
people can chose and build commnities that grow tools that adapt to
their own sensibilities and needs.
KDE is great, Gnome is great, free software is great. Mac and
Windows are hell.
sho_hn wrote 1 hour 3 min ago:
Honestly, I'm not too fond of the screenshots in the OP's article
either. I'd say it looks all fairly slapdash and too busy.
I will say that the permission editing is (as you can also see in
the nav bar there) a few levels down digging into menus, and if
you go into those kinds of corners of other systems the UIs often
tend to start looking a bit more "developer-y". E.g. check the
analogous bits of Android, and also MacOS has a few things like
plist editor windows and such where you're suddenly well off the
consumer track and into unloved form-shaped things. It's a bit
like the backrooms.
But that's not meant as a defense or justification!
In fact blogs like this and lists of warts often help us. If you
play fly on the wall in some of our channels (e.g. the promo
ones), you will also often see people doing the legwork of
parsing reviews and ticketizing criticisms. We try to listen
quite actively because if someone dislikes a UI they're most
often right.
The most important thing is that what's bad today can in fact be
good tomorrow, especially if you don't get defensive about it.
dmd wrote 1 hour 33 min ago:
> Inconsistent padding, font sizes, colors.
But enough about Mac OS Tahoe!
carlosjobim wrote 1 hour 24 min ago:
Gnome has been the best looking desktop for about 5 years now, with
OS X in second place. KDE and Windows (after 7) are so far below
that they're a category of their own.
Apple should at once hire the people who are responsible for
Gnome's UI, because they've got it figured out. Even better, put
back together the Nokia N9 GUI team.
amlib wrote 57 min ago:
Please don't ever again suggest Apple to hire the GNOME team.
That would be a very sad day.
Let them cook!
FirmwareBurner wrote 47 min ago:
LetTim Cook!
cosmic_cheese wrote 58 min ago:
GNOME is pretty, but itâs not great when it comes to
progressive disclosure â what you see is what you get;
thereâs no depth in which power user features can be found.
macOS is nearly the opposite in this regard. I wouldnât mind
giving it a facelift but doing it GNOME style would mean it
losing much of what has kept many users on it.
dimgl wrote 1 hour 8 min ago:
Not sure why you're getting downvoted as this is a valid opinion
to have. IMO my list is MacOS Sonoma, Windows 7, Gnome 30+. While
I like the ideas behind KDE, XFCE and the like, they are terribly
ugly by today's standards.
ziml77 wrote 1 hour 18 min ago:
That is entirely a matter of taste and familiarity
flohofwoe wrote 1 hour 19 min ago:
Not sure if you're serious or missing an /s there ;)
carlosjobim wrote 1 hour 2 min ago:
I honestly think so, but I'm not surprised some losers here at
HN down voted my comment.
There's many things to not like with Gnome, but they've got the
user interface figured out. Contrast is correct both in light
mode and dark mode. Readability is excellent. Margins and
paddings are consistent across the board. Buttons, checkboxes
and other gizmos look exactly as they should, with subtle
shadows and 3D effects. Border radiuses are consistent and not
to large.
Icons are not great, but that's the same on all desktop
environments now. OS X had great icons, but that age is over.
And since they have all the important basics correct, it is
trivial to fix any short comings in the UI. The team deserves
praise for what they've achieved.
purplehat_ wrote 1 hour 36 min ago:
Iâve been afraid to switch from GNOME to KDE because of what Iâve
heard about instability on Wayland as well as Qt being more unstable
than GTK.
Are these concerns overstated? Should I bite the bullet and switch?
Iâm on Debian but considering switching to Fedora.
pabs3 wrote 30 min ago:
KDE is more stable than GNOME, because gnome-shell kills all apps
when it dies due to GPU driver bugs or whatever. Qt/KDE has some more
crash resilience going on. Not as good as Arcan, but I've never had
my session go away since recent KDE6 versions.
URI [1]: https://arcan-fe.com/2017/12/24/crash-resilient-wayland-comp...
lupusreal wrote 1 hour 19 min ago:
There's no need to commit to either, you can install both alongside
each other and pick one each time you log in.
kokada wrote 1 hour 33 min ago:
Author here: using KDE6 with Wayland. Didn't note any instability,
and it was the only desktop environment that I saw to handle HiDPI
for X11 applications (except for Hyrpland, but this was clearly using
a hack).
nelblu wrote 1 hour 39 min ago:
During my college days (2000~2004) KDE (I think it was Fedora/RH 8) was
hands down my favourite desktop. After that when I joined the corporate
world, I lost touch with Linux. Few years ago (thanks to a ton of dark
patterns in Windows), I moved back to Linux. This time I chose Linux
Mint with Cinnamon / XFCE. When Linux Mint (officially) starts
supporting KDE, I would love to try it again. Until then I am really
rooting for YOU KDE developers, I have really fond memory of your tools
(especially Konqueror browser/file manager it was way ahead of its
times then!)
actinium226 wrote 1 hour 42 min ago:
> Even compared with macOS in my MacBook Pro M2 Pro (that is of course
comparing Apples and Bananas),
Missed opportunity for "comparing apples and penguins!"
rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote 1 hour 43 min ago:
I agree, very happy KDE user, wish I was able to use it on my mac
too(no, Asahi does work good enough for me).
yellow_lead wrote 1 hour 43 min ago:
I haven't run into many issues with KDE, and I really like some of the
"built-in" KDE apps. For instance, KDE Connect is amazing, despite some
bugs, it usually works very well. I also use KWrite and Konsole daily.
bayindirh wrote 1 hour 30 min ago:
Try installing kio-audiocd and popping in an Audio CD. This is a one
weird trick which will leave you amazed. :D
Edit: Why someone downvotes the most innovative CD ripping solution
on the planet is beyond me. =)
bovermyer wrote 1 hour 44 min ago:
I have tried to use Linux for my gaming PC, but I always run into
issues. The Finals refused to run, for example.
So, I gave up and just use Windows for gaming. Sigh.
btreecat wrote 1 hour 43 min ago:
Would you consider dual booting and spending more time with games
that _do work_ on Linux?
komali2 wrote 1 hour 43 min ago:
I got Finals working on an i3 nvidia system basically by doing
nothing more than installing Steam and then installing The Finals and
playing through proton. What issues did you run into?
coldpie wrote 1 hour 35 min ago:
According to the game's Steam store page, it uses Easy Anti-Cheat,
which generally does not work in Proton. Pretty common problem for
people who want to play modern online games. I'm surprised you say
it works for you.
zamalek wrote 20 min ago:
EAC works fine if the game has it enabled for Linux, which The
Finals does (I play it).
esseph wrote 1 hour 2 min ago:
It works fine, I've been playing it on Fedora since The Finals
was released.
kachapopopow wrote 1 hour 46 min ago:
switched to kde neon this year, sometimes I forget windows exists.
SirFatty wrote 1 hour 50 min ago:
"After using KDE for about a week I can say that this is the first time
that I really enjoy a desktop environment on Linux, after all those
years."
Wow! (about) A whole week!
The_President wrote 20 min ago:
If they're that excited within a week, the come-down from dealing
with occasional annoying bugs introduced with updates might leave a
bruise.
kokada wrote 1 hour 47 min ago:
I admit that one week is not enough to see possible issues like
reported by @netbiosterror in another thread ( [1] ), but it is
enough to enjoy the desktop experience and everything it offers.
URI [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45289071
Chance-Device wrote 1 hour 50 min ago:
Iâve been using KDE as my personal daily driver for a few years now.
At work I have to use MacOS, and it feels like a serious downgrade.
Just about everything is easier and more intuitive on KDE. Itâs the
single best desktop Iâve ever used.
righthand wrote 58 min ago:
Yes it is too bad most Apple software has devolved into buggy messes
or feels like a Playskool designed application and has extremely
limited use.
criddell wrote 1 hour 33 min ago:
> it feels like a serious downgrade
What kinds of things are you talking about?
These days I feel like all of the major desktop environments are good
enough. 95% of what I do with them is launch applications and move or
resize windows and thatâs easy enough on all of them.
saidinesh5 wrote 1 hour 5 min ago:
The window management and dolphin for file management for one. KDE
let's you easily pin windows on top, show on all desktops etc ..
Dolphin gives you a nice multi tab, split pane file manager along
with a terminal that follows you along.
On my work macbook - I can't install third-party software and the
default window management is just not there. It has problems
restoring windows to correct size when i switch external
monitors... The experience just isn't as nice as KDE on my home
laptop.
I had to install inputactions to get mac like touchpad gestures on
my home kde set up but after that it just feels nicer and smoother
than my office mac
albertzeyer wrote 52 min ago:
Long time ago, that was actually very easy on Mac, via SIMBL (
[1] ) and Afloat ( [2] ) and you could hack around using
FScriptAnywhereSIMBL ( [3] ) or Pyjector ( [4] ).
But that doesn't work anymore since a while (I guess due to SIP).
URI [1]: https://github.com/albertz/simbl
URI [2]: https://github.com/rwu823/afloat
URI [3]: https://github.com/albertz/FScriptAnywhereSIMBL
URI [4]: https://github.com/albertz/Pyjector
carlosjobim wrote 1 hour 16 min ago:
If you use desktop environments more to their capacity, you'll
start to appreciate more advanced features. Such as how apps can
integrate with each other, etc.
criddell wrote 37 min ago:
> how apps can integrate with each other
Can you explain more about this?
ajuc wrote 1 hour 17 min ago:
One thing I missed the most from KDE was changing the volume by
mouse wheel on the sound volume icon in tray. And in general mouse
wheel interactions on tray.
On windows you have to click the icon before you can interact with
it. IIRC on Mac too.
Crestwave wrote 43 min ago:
KDE has a lot of really nice little things, like how you can mute
specific apps with a single click just like muting browser tabs.
I've used a variety of environments extensively (Windows, macOS,
KDE, GNOME, Xfce, i3, dwm, you name it) and this is basically the
one feature I find myself regularly missing from another
environment.
vladvasiliu wrote 1 hour 3 min ago:
> On windows you have to click the icon before you can interact
with it
Not anymore! This changed in some win11 update I can't remember,
but I recall celebrating this improvement.
However, this being windows, of course it's half-assed. This
works with the mouse wheel but not by scrolling the touchpad (as
of up-to-date 24h2).
blenderob wrote 1 hour 51 min ago:
XFCE or LXDE anyone? Honest question - If you use XFCE or LXDE or
similar minimalistic DEs, are you happy with the choice? or do you feel
somethings are missing that are available in KDE, MATE and the likes?
as1mov wrote 15 min ago:
Me and probably a couple of other cave dwellers use Mate (someone
must be, because it keeps getting maintained). It has a the Win
9x-era aesthetics and simplicity that I've not found anywhere else.
snickerdoodle14 wrote 36 min ago:
XFCE for virtual machines or low powered hardware
drusklo wrote 42 min ago:
I've used XFCE as my main DE for around 10 years, (I switched to
MacOs a year ago), I think mostly depends on your workflow, for me
the best thing was that it gets out your way, you have a simple menu
to select apps, a taskbar, and that's about it. I tested Gnome and
KDE a few times over the years and for me they are more bloated than
what I needed for my workflow, but I agree they feel more cohesive
and the aesthetics are nicer.
pjmlp wrote 49 min ago:
XFCE for me, when my netbook was still alive.
I actualy liked Ubuntu's Unity, and the move to GNOME did not made me
an happy user.
As someone that used Gtkmm during the GNOME 1.0 days, the way current
GNOME works and the overuse of JavaScript made me look elsewhere.
XFCE was good enough for me (I am old enough to have used twm), and
looks rather nice.
heresie-dabord wrote 54 min ago:
labwc + Openbox theming
URI [1]: https://github.com/labwc/labwc
asicsp wrote 55 min ago:
I use xfce because it is stable, simple and lightweight. Perhaps I
don't know what I'm missing but I'm very happy with it.
CapsAdmin wrote 1 hour 8 min ago:
I've used kde for years, but earlier this year I decided to try xfce.
My goal was to have my own setup without "bloat" I never used. So my
own task manager of choice, my search bar of choice, etc.
My initial impression of xfce was that it was much snappier than kde.
My main gripe with xfce was the lack of wayland support.
A big personal issue; while my own custom setup was ok, I still had
to maintain it, and I found myself trying to make xfce like kde. So
might as well use kde I guess.
Another super specifc thing I missed was that its window manager
didn't support defining horizontal gradients in the titlebar, so I
couldn't rock a true windows classic theme. It could do vertical
gradients, but that's not the same.
Now I'm back to using KDE.
heresie-dabord wrote 55 min ago:
I recommend that you try labwc. It's lean and supports Openbox
themes.
I switched from X11 and LXDE to Sway and had a good experience. But
Sway was my slippery slope to labwc.
URI [1]: https://github.com/labwc/labwc
bee_rider wrote 1 hour 17 min ago:
Desktop Environments always feel a bit clunky to me. A Window Manager
like i3 or something is easier.
I get the idea of a desktop environment offering more consistency.
But, my system feels very consistent. It is really easy, because
there are only ~4 types of windows: Firefox, Evince, a terminal, or
some ephemeral matplotlib graph.
I wouldnât think of it as missing out on anything. You just become
familiar with the ecosystem of mostly terminal utilities.
lupusreal wrote 1 hour 21 min ago:
LXQt with kwin (for kwin's nice compositing effects.)
felipeccastro wrote 1 hour 31 min ago:
I've used XFCE for a 2011 laptop, it was about as fast as LXDE but
better polished. Windows was unusable there, and XFCE made the
computer feel brand new. Only the modern websites that would still
cause slowness, but the OS was great.
panny wrote 1 hour 39 min ago:
I have a Rock64 that runs LxQT.
I run KDE Plasma on my laptop. KDE animations are too bloated and
heavy for the Rock64, and there's way too many preferences to fiddle
with to disable them all. If there was some kind of global
"lightweight mode" checkbox in the plasma prefs, I might give it
another try.
LxQT is fine. The main gripe I have with it is there's no sort of
LxQT-meta package on ArchLinux which installs everything I actually
need without a lot of fiddling. I spent a couple weeks just gradually
figuring out things were missing that would make the environment a
lot better. It would be nice if it just included things like oxygen
icons and whatever. I understand lightweight, but they should have an
"opinionated" lightweight option since I just want something that
runs well on a SBC.
I used to run XFCE on an arm chromebook for a few years as my daily
driver. Between the two, XFCE seemed much easier to
install/customize. IDK about now, since that was before the latest
release which uses latest GTK. I assume it is less lightweight now as
a result of that change.
coldpie wrote 1 hour 39 min ago:
Is XFCE minimalistic? It feels to me like it's just a modern
continuation of the desktops we had in the 90s and early 2000s.
Instead of adding in a bunch of extra stuff and moving things around
to keep people busy, they're just quietly making it a little better
with every release.
The only desktops I've used since 2007 are XFCE and macOS, so I guess
I don't know what I might be missing from KDE or MATE. But XFCE
absolutely blows macOS out of the water, so at least I'm not missing
anything from that alternative.
Svip wrote 1 hour 41 min ago:
I've been using XFCE for the better part of two decades now (I still
run into people upset about the changes XFCE made in 2003, i.e. 4.0),
and I am perfectly satisfied. Though as the saying goes: what I
don't know I don't know; so I may be missing out on a better
experience, but at least I am content enough that I don't bother
seeking it out.
Though, my monitors are also from 2010, so a lot of the visual
problems people have with XFCE, I don't.
ndsipa_pomu wrote 1 hour 44 min ago:
I used to mostly use XFCE and moved to KDE as it supported high DPI
screens better.
k__ wrote 1 hour 3 min ago:
Yes, this is my only gripe with Xfce.
Everything is sooo small on my 16" notebook and when I zoom it gets
blurry.
vanviegen wrote 1 hour 44 min ago:
Back when the lightweight desktops were popping up, KDE was
considered pretty memory heavy. Thing is, KDE hasn't really kept up
with growing RAM sizes as well as Windows has. ;-) So unless you're
trying to run a Linux desktop on a potato, I'd say KDE should now be
considered pretty lightweight.
bluGill wrote 1 hour 30 min ago:
Even back in the day KDE pointed out that in real world use they
were not as memory heavy because everything depended on the same
toolkits that were shared. Meaning your startup memory use was
higher, but once you launched the applications/tools you were going
to use KDE used less. (this of course depended on which tools you
ran, KDE assumed all KDE tools, run a non-kde application and it
doesn't work)
sho_hn wrote 1 hour 40 min ago:
We also did a lot of intentional action to get the resource usage
down in the Plasma 5 generation and timeframe.
E.g. the machine we optimized for during at least one or two Plasma
dev meetings I remember was the original Pine64 Pinebook, which was
a very under-powered device. We had a stack of them to hand to
devs. Intentionally as a "if we can get it to fly there, it'll fly
anywhere".
So it's not just that we haven't gotten worse, we also did get
legitimately better in later releases compared to some of our
porkier ones (which also did exist).
zamalek wrote 22 min ago:
Yeah it legitimately trades blows with the lightweight desktops.
OscarCunningham wrote 45 min ago:
Thanks for this work. I switched from xfce when I realised that
KDE was nearly as lightweight.
gbin wrote 1 hour 45 min ago:
You lose the application integration I have with KDE when you use
apps from the KDE suite or even QT apps.
kachapopopow wrote 1 hour 45 min ago:
pixelation in fonts, apps sometimes just not working, input latency,
unpleasant to look at, brightness controls, notifications, could
probably write out an entire 2500 word essay.
explorigin wrote 1 hour 52 min ago:
I've been using my steamdeck as my personal computer for more than a
year now. It's desktop mode is a polished KDE experience that anyone
could use.
hasperdi wrote 1 hour 46 min ago:
Are you using the standard Steam OS desktop mode, or installed a
different linux distro with KDE?
_davide_ wrote 1 hour 53 min ago:
I have been using kde for 15+ years, except 4.0, which was painful,
everything has been mostly a smooth experience.
> However, KDE considered my TV the primary desktop and put the task
bar only in that monitor, and even disabling the TV didn't add the task
bar to my monitor.
You can order the screens however you want; the first one will be
considered primary.
marcosdumay wrote 1 hour 46 min ago:
At least on the version currently on Debian, systemsettings has a
"primary" radio on the screen configuration panel that let you change
it to whatever monitor you want, on whatever order you want.
It selects the first screen just as a default.
kokada wrote 1 hour 49 min ago:
Yes, but I assumed that disabling the TV would set the monitor as the
primary desktop and added the taskbar to it, but it didn't. Now I may
have done something wrong, but I was just reporting my experience.
graemep wrote 1 hour 10 min ago:
It should do that. If I unplug my external monitor the panel moves
to the laptop, and it even turns it on if its been disabled.
tux3 wrote 1 hour 44 min ago:
It remembers the screens to try to keep your settings if you
disconnect and reconnect external screens, but in this case that
was not very helpful
I always want the taskbar on every screen personally. I think
that'd be a friendlier default, but since it's KDE it's at least
not too hard to change, and everything is configurable down to fine
details
_davide_ wrote 1 hour 46 min ago:
Then it's likely that plasma just crashed :')
kokada wrote 1 hour 45 min ago:
It didn't, because I could create the taskbar manually by
clicking with the right click in the desktop.
kokada wrote 1 hour 54 min ago:
Hi folks, author here. Happy to answer questions.
sho_hn wrote 1 hour 46 min ago:
Plasma dev here, also happy to answer questions!
The_President wrote 18 min ago:
What recommended long-term-support stable version release channels
are available for Plasma?
pabs3 wrote 32 min ago:
No questions, just some rough edges to report; infinite clipboard
history would be nice, notifications search/sorting would be nice,
notifications panel gets slow with hundreds of notifications (from
IRC bots) when dragging the scrollbar, notifications panel icons
could be removable or made smaller or just have one per app.
lionkor wrote 4 min ago:
Not the person you asked, but maybe open Issues somewhere for
that?
panny wrote 1 hour 27 min ago:
No questions, I just want to say thank you. Plasma is great and has
sane defaults unlike Gnome.
sho_hn wrote 1 hour 24 min ago:
Thanks!
Yizahi wrote 1 hour 31 min ago:
Hello. What Linux distributives in your opinion have KDE as a first
class desktop? With priority support for KDE, testing, driver
compatibility etc.?
sho_hn wrote 1 hour 24 min ago:
This will be a purely personal answer, as we don't really
maintain any official list of favorites.
Myself and my family are running Fedora's KDE edition. The Fedora
team has a long history of working very closely with the Plasma
dev team, quite actively contributes upstream, and I haven't been
disappointed. I'd vouch for this one from first-hand experience!
We also have a new project to produce a distro of our own in the
works, called KDE Linux. That has recently had its first alpha
release. It still has some real feature gaps and may not serve
you well if one of the missing bits is something you require, but
it's definitely worth looking into. It has a lot of next-gen
ideas baked and some things we got to learn during the SteamOS
effort, and think it has a place in the ecosystem.
In the dev community I generally see a lot of people running KDE
on Arch, Debian and openSUSE as well.
nomdep wrote 21 min ago:
What's the relation of KDE Linux with KDE Neon? The former was
made by Blue System and the new one by Techpaladin or something
like that?
a3w wrote 1 hour 43 min ago:
Are error messages, e.g. when trying to connect wifi, as expressive
and case-complete?
sho_hn wrote 1 hour 37 min ago:
Honestly, this one I'm not sure about as I haven't worked on the
connectivity UIs myself. I know we have backends to
NetworkManager and ConnMan, and generally I would assume we pass
through errors they generate and perhaps try to augment them, but
I'm not personally aware of the SOTA on WiFi error reporting and
how we stack up.
I'm sure if you're missing anything useful diagnostics-wise it's
worth a FREQ though. A lot of us also do travel with our laptop
to numerous FOSS events all over the place and encounter sub-par
networks left and right, after all.
The_President wrote 15 min ago:
Piggybacking on the context of your network role, is there an
initiative to fix temporarily unavailable sshfs mounts freezing
Plasma and Dolphin?
gmueckl wrote 1 hour 55 min ago:
KDE has been phenomenal since the days of KDE 3.5.x. I wish that I
could use it more than I'm able to (limited selection of desktop
environments at work etc.). The KDE 4.0 release has given the project
an unfortunate lasting bad reputation that stuck around despite the
fact that it was really just a single bad release that got fixed very
quickly.
kokada wrote 15 min ago:
Author here. The last time I used KDE was during the 4.x days. I
remember trying multiple versions, from the earlier 4.0/4.2 days
until something like 4.14. Even so, I kept getting crashes and
instability.
I remember the one that finally made me stop using KDE altogether and
migrate to Gnome 3 at the time was one crash that I would get
frequently with Dolphin while randomly browsing fils (that would stop
once I removed all Dolphin configuration files but go back after a
few weeks).
pferde wrote 1 hour 35 min ago:
Even KDE1 and KDE2 were very good for their time.
Vinnl wrote 1 hour 44 min ago:
I haven't ever really used KDE, and I'm quite sure that it's still
not my desktop, but as someone who was aware of the trouble around
4.0, the view I had of the project was that those problems were long
gone, and that most people using it today were pretty happy with it.
So I'm not sure whether it's try that that caused a bad reputation
that sticks around to this day. (I have other reasons for not
preferring it.)
bayindirh wrote 1 hour 51 min ago:
> The KDE 4.0 release has given the project an unfortunate lasting
bad reputation...
True, but frankly, KDE team repeatedly said that 4.0 to 4.2 is
considered beta, and not production ready. I'm also coming from 3.5.x
days, and just waited for KDE to mature a little before jumping 4.x
bandwagon, and I'm still on KDE.
Maybe, we, the users shall read the announcements with a keener eye.
bluGill wrote 1 hour 27 min ago:
We all (not just KDE) learned that users don't read those. Worse,
distro maintainers either don't read them or in their "we are on
the latest" push will ignore them. KDE was pushed out to a lot of
people who shouldn't have got it.
It is safe to say that many other projects have not done beta .0
releases like that because they don't want the same to happen to
them - even though they really need beta testers. Of course few
projects will admit that they learned the lesson from KDE.
aidenn0 wrote 19 min ago:
> Worse, distro maintainers either don't read them or in their
"we are on the latest" push will ignore them
Oh, this is so true. Ubuntu adopted Pulse Audio long before
anyone (including Poettering) considered it stable. IIRC the
readme even said something like "The sound system that breaks
your audio"
I probably shouldn't complain though, since as a non-Ubuntu user,
I get the benefits of all the Ubuntu users beta testing software
for me.
bayindirh wrote 1 hour 12 min ago:
> KDE was pushed out to a lot of people who shouldn't have got
it.
Yeah, I remember that turmoil, and was really sad for all KDE
devs.
> It is safe to say that many other projects have not done beta
.0 releases...
This was a brave move by KDE back then, and still a brave move,
but with proper communication, it can be done, I guess...
KDE developers and volunteers embody a great trove of wisdom
about software development. I learnt how to make proper bug
reporting from AmaroK project, and still use the same
methodology, even with projects which do not enforce any style.
It makes things much easier.
...and everyone needs beta testers. That's true.
vanviegen wrote 1 hour 40 min ago:
Uhh... No?
URI [1]: https://kde.org/announcements/4/4.0/
bayindirh wrote 1 hour 34 min ago:
This is one of the places I have found the relevant note [0].
It states the following:
Some of the more obvious issues are listed below. If these
issues are important to you, you should stay with KDE 3.5 (KDE
3.5.10 was released in August 2008) until KDE 4.2 is released
(scheduled for release in January 2009) when most of these issues
are scheduled to be resolved.
It is possible that distributions will work around some of
these issues before distributing to users.
Also, IIRC, KDE developers were openly saying that releases from
4.0 to 4.2 will be buggy, and things will stabilize in 4.2 and
beyond.
[0]:
URI [1]: https://community.kde.org/Schedules/Is_KDE_4.1_for_you%3...
netbioserror wrote 2 hours 2 min ago:
I like KDE, but every time I use it as a daily driver, I again run into
all of those little issues that make it frustrating over time. Little
breakages, weird Qt dependency hell, the works. I came to Mint because
Cinnamon really has been built with being bomb-proof as the highest
priority. The details are sweated, and the feature set is lean, so they
can really focus on quality.
tsimionescu wrote 1 hour 29 min ago:
Last time I experimented with Linux desktop (maybe two years ago?) I
had one silly annoyance with KDE on Fedora. I was running this on a
laptop with a regular track pad. I was surprised to find out that tap
to click was not enabled by default, I had to click the physical
button to mimic a mouse click. Not a big deal I thought - I logged
in, went to settings, and found a configuration to enable the
behavior I wanted - great. However, this behavior was only enabled
for my user. Every time I wanted to log in, the login screen would
use the default behavior in KDE, since my user preferences weren't
applied until I actually logged in, of course.
I know, of course, that it's an extremely minor thing, but it felt
quite representative. It also reminded me that Linux is stuck in this
bygone age where it's expected for a computer to be a multi-user
system, so of course they can't have a "privileged" user account
other than root (and god forbid you'd think of using root as your
normal every day user).
cosmic_cheese wrote 1 hour 37 min ago:
Some might say it feels dated, but for me Cinnamon gives more of an
impression that the whole thing has been thought through. It has a
better grip on various aspects of design like its use of whitespace,
control alignment, and typography too.
Donât get me wrong, KDE is a nice desktop in many ways, but it
would benefit considerably from attention of a professional UI
designer.
BoredPositron wrote 1 hour 44 min ago:
I feel the same and the more I use the integrated apps the more I see
the bad margins, thin fonts and general ux quirks. It's compact and
the information density is high but it has so much noise that it just
feels uncomfortable to use. I have the opposite problem with gnome.
Just give me a modern version of the win2k gui or fluxbox. sic
bayindirh wrote 1 hour 49 min ago:
KDE is a complicated piece of software and packaging it is hard
sometimes, but I'm using KDE on Debian since Debian 4, and the team
handled all process phenomenally.
One of the tricks Debian team does is they first compile the old KDE
with newer libraries, then migrate KDE itself, like Intel's Tick
Tock. This gives both a performant and issue-free experience as far
as I can tell.
Note: I run Debian Testing on my Desktop systems. Servers always run
stable.
abhinavk wrote 1 hour 50 min ago:
I can turn off other features and work around them but the most
annoying yet harmless is the flicker when you switch to an inactive
app. The title bar and the window contents change their color at
different frames. It requires ditching Breeze and using other theme
engines/decorations altogether.
I currently use niri but Plasma has always been my go-to/backup DE. I
always have it installed in case someone else has to use my PC.
[1]
URI [1]: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433569
rtaylorgarlock wrote 1 hour 57 min ago:
Maybe it's because I'm such a latecomer, but I've truly enjoyed using
KDE on a mostly-daily basis over the last ~9mo. I haven't extended it
or really stretched (e.g. with multi-monitor setup), but I also
haven't had to diag any issues or fix anything. Just left it vanilla
and did other things.
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