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                                                             on Gopher (inofficial)
   URI Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
   URI   Why I'm teaching kids to hack computers
       
       
        werdl wrote 1 day ago:
        "teach kids to hack"
        "available for iPhone, iPad and Mac"
        
        You need to understand your market better!
       
          fainpul wrote 11 hours 2 min ago:
          OP is Paul Hudson, creator of lots of Swift / SwiftUI tutorials and
          other resources.
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.hackingwithswift.com/
       
          brabel wrote 1 day ago:
          As an outsider, are you suggesting OP can make more sales on Android
          because that’s more hacker friendly? Or what exactly? From what I
          hear no one makes any money on apps outside the Apple ecosystem and
          big game platforms.
       
        tristor wrote 1 day ago:
        Nice, I am a fan of this idea and have been trying to figure out the
        right way to engage my niece in computers in a real way.  One of my
        biggest concerns from seeing how it impacted my stepdaughter (now in
        college) is how kids are not learning how general purpose computers
        work and are becoming too comfortable existing entirely in restricted
        environments like iPads and Chromebooks.  With my niece, I'm taking
        more active measures to ensure she learns how things actually work.
        
        I bought the full version because I'm not a fan of in-app purchases in
        things marketed at children, and I'll give it a playthrough myself
        first to make sure it fits the bill.  One of the upcoming projects
        we're going to do together is to build a mechanical keyboard.  I'm also
        going to build a PC with her and try to teach her the basics so she can
        explore mostly uninhibited on Linux.
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          Thank you! I hope you enjoy using the app together.
       
        anti-soyboy wrote 1 day ago:
        guy thinks he is Mr. Robot? Hack computers jajajajaja people watched
        too many films
       
        rkozik1989 wrote 1 day ago:
        Do you also teach kids about jail time and/or being blackballed by the
        industry? Because no matter how well-intentioned you are I can see a 13
        year old me doing the naughty thing.
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          No, but I like the idea – I think it might make for a good screen
          to add once they complete the game, saying "use your skills
          responsibly" and similar. Thank you!
       
        Zhyl wrote 1 day ago:
        Where would this sit between Over the Wire [0] and Hacknet [1]? I would
        try it but I don't own anything apple.
        
        [0] [1]
        
   URI  [1]: https://overthewire.org/wargames/bandit/
   URI  [2]: https://hacknet-os.com/
       
          Flere-Imsaho wrote 1 day ago:
          There's a web version at: [1] I don't believe you need Apple hardware
          for this.
          
          However the blog post states "it’s not as powerful or as fun, but
          it’s entirely web-based and free". Not sure what is meant by "not
          as powerful"?
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.hacktivate.io/
       
            twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
            The native version does quite a few extra things, including
            bringing all the solving tools inside the app (as opposed to using
            external tools like CyberChef, Boxentriq, Dcode, etc), but also has
            more compute-intensive operations like creating spectrograms of
            audio and image manipulation, a much bigger implementation of the
            Linux terminal, and (safely!) destructive things too – you get
            local copies of files or databases to work with, so you can delete
            them, modify them, etc, freely, rather than being restricted to
            working with shared resources.
       
        TimByte wrote 1 day ago:
        Huge respect for not just building a tool, but building an experience
        that demystifies hacking in a structured, ethical, and genuinely fun
        way
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          Thank you! I poured a lot of time and energy into making sure
          challenges are unique and interesting, but also graded so folks
          follow a cohesive pathway, and also feel fun – it's as close to a
          "Hollywood-hacker" aesthetic as I could get.
       
        VladVladikoff wrote 1 day ago:
        Cool idea I was going to check it out but I don’t want to update my
        iPad to the latest OS for jailbreaky reasons. Any chance you could
        release support for something slightly before 18.5?
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          The app only uses one API from iOS 18 and later, so from a coding
          perspective I could make it support older versions easily. However,
          the bigger problem is testing: right now I test each release
          thoroughly on iPhone, iPad, and Mac, across iOS 18 and iOS 26, so
          adding another iOS version would require another set of devices and
          more time.
       
        vhantz wrote 1 day ago:
        The supposed target of this game do not at all match who can actually
        play it. Kids don't have Macs. Those who want to hack don't have
        iPhones. I would even say that a kid with an iPhone will never get the
        necessary curiosity about computers to want to hack anything.
       
          saagarjha wrote 9 hours 25 min ago:
          This is categorically not true. Source: watched a bunch of people
          enter the jailbreak scene
       
          wingerlang wrote 1 day ago:
          Why would people who want to hack not have iPhones?
       
          dooglius wrote 1 day ago:
          I was with you up until the last statement which does not seem
          plausible at all. Curiosity about computers is not something you are
          born with.
       
            vhantz wrote 1 day ago:
            Curiosity is not something you are born with, yes. It's influenced
            by the experiences you have. I don't think iPhones allow for the
            experiences that push kids to want to hack things. It is pretty
            much a sealed environment where all details about how the computer
            works is hidden behind some app. Even access to the filesystem
            (iirc from my 2014 experience) is hidden away (like being unable to
            access your picture files except through the gallery app). That
            kind of environment stiffles curiosity imo.
       
          liziwizi wrote 1 day ago:
          i think this is a terrible assumption to make.
          the computer or phone a kid gets from their parents has nothing to do
          with their curiosity, intelligence, interests or ambitions.
       
          le-mark wrote 1 day ago:
          My son has been highly motivated to learn about hacking in his iPad
          to hack some of the games they play for school (blooket and prodigy).
          Those are web based games, true, but fiddling with the dev console,
          editing the dom, and finding and pasting scripts, is not nothing.
       
            skeeter2020 wrote 1 day ago:
            >> the dev console, editing the dom, and finding and pasting
            scripts, is not nothing.
            
            this is awesome, but way easier on a cheaper, more accessible
            device.
       
              twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
              I think it's fair to say that the  most accessible device is the
              one they are already using.
       
          Gerard0 wrote 1 day ago:
          I am no hacker, but for me it was exactly this which made me go
          What?!
       
        hacb wrote 1 day ago:
        This is why I like the Try Hack Me platform so much. You have a lot of
        walkthroughs and guided challenges to get started and learn the basics;
        challenges get harder and harder with less and less help. You also have
        access to challenge write-ups even if you did not complete them,
        meaning that if you're stuck, instead of losing motivation, you can
        make progress.
        
        They embrace learning for all levels and helped me so much getting into
        infosec professionally.
       
        xandrius wrote 1 day ago:
        Cool idea and execution but having in-app purchases to buy hints for a
        game targeted to kids is a big no.
        
        I get the market forces and such but I don't want to have an app subtly
        teach my non-existent kids to reach out to in-app purchases like that.
       
          BobbyTables2 wrote 16 hours 17 min ago:
          What you describe is practically every Roblox game out there… 
          (yeah it’s horrible )
       
          krackers wrote 1 day ago:
          That's just part of the meta-game, to get kids to jailbreak the
          iphone and then patch the IPA
       
          Fokamul wrote 1 day ago:
          Hmm, meanwhile you have whole gaming platforms like Steam, where they
          basically make huge profit from gambling in games like Counter-strike
          and others. And hmm whose playing those games?
       
            doublepg23 wrote 1 day ago:
            Aren't most micro-transactions like those purely cosmetic?
       
              giobox wrote 1 day ago:
              Yes for Valve, but that hasn't stopped a secondary market
              transacting tens of thousands of dollars or more for them in some
              cases.
              
              > [1] >
              
   URI        [1]: https://dmarket.com/blog/most-expensive-csgo-skins
   URI        [2]: https://tradeit.gg/csgo/store
       
              gmueckl wrote 1 day ago:
              They are in Valve's own games. But items drop at different rates,
              which creates artificial scarciry and items can also be traded
              for money.
       
            ChicagoBoy11 wrote 1 day ago:
            In defense of the parent comment, I don't know that he suggested
            that it wasn't effective, but it is a dark pattern that probably
            should be avoided if the gist of the effort is to truly be an
            educational game that you'd want to enthusiastically support.
       
          jrm4 wrote 1 day ago:
          I dig it; and if the kids figure out how to get what they want
          WITHOUT paying for a damn thing, EVEN BETTER.
       
          TimByte wrote 1 day ago:
          Yep, in-app purchases aimed at kids is always a sensitive area
       
            Tade0 wrote 1 day ago:
            "sensitive" undersells it. Apple in its refund form has an option
            to select "unauthorised in-app purchase by a minor" as the reason.
            
            I was not aware how predatory this market has become until an
            annual subscription after a "one week trial" renewed itself
            automatically despite having been already cancelled on the last
            day.
            
            I'm assuming the money is lost because third party subscriptions
            might require earlier cancellation, but that was the last time I
            allowed for anything with such a short trial period.
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          If you try the game and like it – if you've run through the 10
          tutorial challenges and thought, "I like this and want more" –
          there's a separate version of the app that is an up-front, one-time
          purchase with no in-app purchases at all. You pay once and get
          everything. Get it here:
          
   URI    [1]: https://apps.apple.com/app/id6754342195
       
            figassis wrote 1 day ago:
            Thank you. I am always willing to pay a premium for kids apps that
            don't have any dark patterns, subscription crap or in app
            purchases. It's sad that the market has been so corrupted that now
            customers are asked to pay a premium to keep kids safe and sane.
       
              twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
              You'll be pleased to know that the app is not only a one-time
              payment, but also has zero tracking – no analytics, no logging,
              no adverts, and no data collection of any kind.
       
                xandrius wrote 1 day ago:
                Can I see the source code? Else it's just words :/
       
                  twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
                  Source code wouldn't help, because there's no way to verify
                  any code I showed would be the same as the version on the App
                  Store. Fortunately, you can just watch the network packets
                  leaving from your device when you run the app, and you'll see
                  literally nothing coming to me.
       
            xandrius wrote 1 day ago:
            Show them X free levels and with free hints.
            
            When they get into the groove, at X+1 level show them "Did you like
            this? You can get 200+ levels if you convince your parents that
            this is a worthwhile investment for your learning." (copy TBD) and
            bam, you have a traditional game with a demo and a way to buy it
            that doesn't train kids to expect in-app purchases for every breath
            they take.
            
            And btw, $25 is high even for an indie steam game, a mobile game
            will be even harder to market at that price. Just FYI. Best of
            luck!
       
            randunel wrote 1 day ago:
            Oh, so having a separate (paid for) app makes targeting kids with
            in app purchases OK in the (free) app you advertise?
       
              stronglikedan wrote 1 day ago:
              yes, absolutely. options are always the right thing. nothing
              wrong with "targeting kids with in app purchases" if you're up
              front about it
       
              twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
              If I only released an up-front payment version, people would
              complain that they weren't able to try the app first. If I only
              released a free version with in-app purchases, people would
              complain that they don't like in-app purchases. I did both, and
              I'm still getting complaints. I get that my solution is
              imperfect, but I'm trying my best.
       
                yojo wrote 1 day ago:
                The HN crowd is touchy on some topics. Don’t take it too
                personally - good on you for building something cool and
                shipping it.
                
                FWIW my favorite non-predatory pattern is a level-limited free
                version with a single “unlock full game” IAP. That way
                users don’t have to lose their progress switching to paid.
       
                  skeeter2020 wrote 1 day ago:
                  This is just an optimized version of shareware, now that we
                  don't need to mail in a cheque to get the full set of
                  floppies. seems self-defeating to reference anything like "in
                  app purchase" for what's jsut a path for an immediate update
                  after the user completes a known subset of levels.
       
                anonymous908213 wrote 1 day ago:
                This is a solved problem. It's called a "demo". What it entails
                is giving a small sample of your product completely for free,
                with no monetization at all, in order to entice a prospective
                buyer for more. It may be less lucrative than selling
                microtransactions to literal children, but it is something that
                people won't complain about, if you are genuinely in the market
                for a solution and not just trying to farm money off of
                scamming kids into swiping their parents' credit card because
                they have no idea what it's worth.
       
                  twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
                  You say "solved problem", then suggest something explicitly
                  banned by Apple's app review guidelines.
       
                    zem wrote 19 hours 35 min ago:
                    ugh, that more i hear about apple the gladder i am that i
                    have never had to go anywhere near the whole slimy mess.
       
                    inanutshellus wrote 1 day ago:
                    1. HN folk are being surprisingly hostile here and it's not
                    cool.
                    
                    2. Is it really true that "the game is X levels and in-app
                    purchases is a-lot-more-levels" is banned but "the game is
                    Y levels and limited features and in-app purchases gets you
                    features and hints" is not?
       
                      fainpul wrote 1 day ago:
                      I'm confused, because the version you can install for
                      free is literally that: you get the 10 tutorial
                      challenges and 1 subsequent challenge for free, then you
                      have to pay to buy / unlock the full game. How is that
                      different from the classic shareware / demo concept?
                      Obviously it's not banned.
       
                        fragmede wrote 16 hours 45 min ago:
                        > Demos, betas, and trial versions of your app don’t
                        belong on the App Store – use TestFlight instead.
                        
   URI                  [1]: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/g...
       
                          anonymous908213 wrote 16 hours 29 min ago:
                          This doesn't apply to a demo with a full product
                          behind it. You can release your "demo" combined as
                          one app, with a small subset of content available for
                          free and the rest locked behind a macrotransaction.
                          Which is what OP already does, except they also have
                          microtransactions targeting children on the side.
                          This essentially only prohibits you from releasing a
                          demo if the demo is for an unfinished product.
       
                cheschire wrote 1 day ago:
                Good early lesson of small business and app development is you
                can’t make everyone happy. Trying to though will be
                guaranteed to make at least one person unhappy, and that’s
                you.
                
                So take advice where it’s offered but don’t mistake
                complaints for advice.
       
                aeon_ai wrote 1 day ago:
                The issue here is that you are trying to bridge two disparate
                goals - making money and helping kids.
                
                The fact that this isn’t open source, as it stands, means the
                latter is not a primary goal - which is not an indictment, just
                an observation.
                
                The complaints will come, regardless, for that reason alone,
                given the marketing/narrative.
                
                You’re selling a product to parents/educators who want to
                gamify the technical education of their children. That market,
                small as it is, despises micro transactions.
       
                  yojo wrote 1 day ago:
                  A sustainable business has the capacity to help a lot more
                  kids than an unfinished open source project that never gets
                  released on iOS because no one wants to pay the developer
                  fee.
                  
                  This isn’t “HackVille by Zynga,” it’s an indie dev
                  trying to make a product they believe in. I hope it succeeds
                  and inspires more high quality edutainment.
       
                    skeeter2020 wrote 1 day ago:
                    You're not arguing against the GP but for the same thing
                    from different angles. They're saying the approach is
                    fighting the goal, while you're just saying "I hope they're
                    successful".
       
                      yojo wrote 1 day ago:
                      I was responding to the claim that making money is in
                      tension with helping kids learn.
                      
                      I think it’s fair to claim that a large enterprise will
                      eventually crank the money dial to maximum extraction.
                      But a solo dev is free to follow their conscience and
                      make money in a responsible way.
                      
                      I don’t like the “pay per hint” model as currently
                      implemented, but I’m willing to give the developer the
                      benefit of the doubt that they didn’t think it all the
                      way through.
       
                    aeon_ai wrote 1 day ago:
                    My point is that packaging the app in such a way as to put
                    off your target audience is inherently unsustainable
                    business.
       
                      yojo wrote 1 day ago:
                      I agree with that criticism, and I'd encourage the dev to
                      iterate on non-micro-transaction monetization schemes.
                      The part I disagree with is that a profit motive is
                      antithetical to helping kids.
                      
                      It'd be nice if we had robust, no-strings attached
                      funding streams to make this kind of content, but we
                      don't, so if we want it to exist, consumers need to pay
                      for it.
       
                  dghlsakjg wrote 1 day ago:
                  What does open sourcing an application have to do with
                  helping kids?
                  
                  There are plenty of arguments for open sourcing things.
                  “Closed source apps necessarily deprioritize helping
                  children” is not an obvious argument to me. Can you draw
                  the connection more explicitly?
       
                    aeon_ai wrote 1 day ago:
                    Scale and accessibility - Eliminating any barriers for
                    children to get access to education, etc.
                    
                    Not to mention, it’s an app trying to help kids get
                    exposed to underpinning technologies - seeing how the game
                    itself is made would be optimizing for that end.
                    
                    It’s not that closed source deprioritizes, but the
                    “helping kids” were the sole and primary goal sought,
                    there’s a clear answer to what would align with that.
                    
                    All said, it’s not a critique of the OP - reconciling
                    ideals and practical reality often require trade offs that
                    would allow for a project like this to happen in the first
                    place.
       
                      twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
                      I think it's hugely important to eliminate barriers to
                      get access to education, which is why there's a free,
                      web-based version of Hacktivate that is already being
                      used 350+ schools around the world.
                      
                      I also think there's a lot of people out there who would
                      pay to have Hacktivate running offline, using the full
                      power of their device, and with no external resources
                      being required, so I made that too.
                      
                      Suggesting that I need to make them open source to prove
                      I want to help kids learn is really strange, particularly
                      when literally thousands of students around the world are
                      benefitting from my work without paying a cent.
       
                        aeon_ai wrote 1 day ago:
                        As mentioned, no indictment, and you don’t need to
                        prove anything - helping kids learns is clearly a goal.
                        
                        But so too is making money off the iOS app, correct?
       
                wffurr wrote 1 day ago:
                I really appreciate you having a full unlocked copy of the game
                with up front pricing and trying to solve this issue in a
                thoughtful way.
                
                In the old days, the free version would be a limited preview of
                the game, and would direct users to purchase the full game.  We
                called it a demo or shareware, as in you were intended to share
                and copy it widely.
                
                You could also have the “in app purchase” be the full game
                unlock.
       
                  max002 wrote 12 hours 43 min ago:
                  Member it (southpark) :) one could learn some assembler by
                  taking down those limitations and cd checks. Who would
                  thought that it will be useful in reverse engineering malwqre
                  in future? Hah...
                  
                  Dont get me wrong, at that time very little ppl in my country
                   had ccs to actually buy any software even if, they wouldnt
                  give it to kids :)
       
        mbsa7 wrote 1 day ago:
        I have not used the app but the developer Paul Hudson was the guy who
        taught me Swift and UIKit when I was in college and wanted to dig into
        iOS development for fun. He’s truly gifted when it comes to teaching.
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          Thank you for your kind words!      I've spent over a decade teaching
          folks to build apps, and it's something I hope I can continue doing
          for a long time to come.
       
        agigao wrote 1 day ago:
        Such a great idea and product!
        
        Thanks for all the hard work.
        
        However, please get rid of micro-transactions...
        
        I'm fine paying full price of the product for my kid, but not
        micro-transactions.
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          There's a separate version of the app that is a one-time purchase,
          with zero in-app purchases. It's available here:
          
   URI    [1]: https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/hacktivate-education-edition/i...
       
          Msurrow wrote 1 day ago:
          Just FYI: The App Store has an Education Edition which is the “same
          app but paid up front”.
       
          bob_theslob646 wrote 1 day ago:
          >And if you’re dead set against Apple devices, you should check out
          the web version of Hacktivate – it’s not as powerful or as fun,
          but it’s entirely web-based and free!)
       
            twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
            350+ schools are already using this, completely free, and I'm
            adding new schools every week!
       
        bonoboTP wrote 1 day ago:
        I don't think you can recreate this in any top-down manner no matter
        how well-intentioned.
        
        It has to matter to them, and what's more, it gives you extra boost if
        you aren't supposed to do it and no parent or teacher pats you on the
        shoulder, but rather your friends or people in online forums like it,
        or simply you like it for yourself, seeing that the computer does what
        you want.
        
        I learned computers by making a website for my school class, where we
        would put pictures from events and excursions, hosted a chat and a
        phpbb, designed the graphical elements in cracked warez Photoshop etc.
        This forced me to naturally pick up the skills. HTML, JS, burning ISO
        to CD, downloading things etc. Also warez games, learning about the
        Program Files difectory at like age 8 and how to copy the cracked exe
        there. Or setting up port forwarding for multi-player gaming.
        
        Or when I modded GTA (3/VC/SA) with new car models that I built in 3D
        modeling software based on hunting down the orthographic projection
        blueprints of our family car, or adding the police vehicles from my
        country in GTA, messing with textures etc.
        
        Or translating games from English, reverse engineering the binary file
        that contained the strings, I figures out that the length of each
        string was also there and I had to modify that too, learn about big
        endian and little endian, learn to work with a hex editor, understand
        what hex is. It was super exciting. If I had a lecture from some
        teacher about hex representation with some exercises at the end of the
        chapter for homework, I likely would have found it boring. But here I
        had context, I had a goal, and I had no idea what I was looking at when
        I opened the hex editor, I just saw that people used similar tools for
        translating other games and so I tried on less popular games where
        nobody had a specialized tool yet, it felt like making discoveries,
        going deep into the jungle and prevailing.
        
        Now to contradict myself, I did have a lot of fun also while solving
        PythonChallenge.com, even though it's artificial tasks. But at least I
        found it myself online and wasn't handed to me and nobody knew or cared
        that I was working on it.
        
        So I think this is just really hard to externally motivate if the kids
        don't have any desires or drive to see some effect caused by them. And
        maybe even I wouldn't do it in the current software and phone
        environment.
        
        But we also have to remember that a generation ago it was also not many
        people who were really into computers.
       
          91bananas wrote 1 day ago:
          I have found this while trying to teach my kids how to write anything
          software related from scratch. They've done some code.org, but it
          becomes boring quickly. We tried to make tic-tac-toe in js/html/css
          since they can do they whole thing in the browser. It held their
          attention slightly longer, but still became boring. It's not
          something they want to do.
          
          I totally agree with you on learning for a purpose, picking up
          knowledge is super easy imo when you're in pursuit of a goal bigger
          than picking up knowledge. You don't even realize all of the things
          you learn in order to achieve your goal. But you have to want a goal.
          
          I also totally agree sometimes it's fun to just do dumb problems, I
          found these CAD modeling youtube videos where guys will race each
          other modeling some part off of a print, spent a week just screwing
          around with those because it's fun to flex sometimes.
       
            bonoboTP wrote 1 day ago:
            On the other hand if I'm honest, all this noodling around as a teen
            didn't give me a super robust foundation at all. I had a kind of
            folk understanding, or rough mental model of the things but it made
            me like it as a hobby and identify with it, which pushed me to take
            up CS in college.
            
            It gave me some head start that I knew Python and JS when learning
            C, but not super much. Other students, who were smart but didn't
            fiddle with computers as much, generally picked these things up
            along the way, 4-5 years college is plenty time to develop the
            skills if you got the talent.
            
            Also my understanding of networks was super shallow based on just
            multi player gaming and learning router settings, and I only really
            built a proper mental model in college with OSI model, TCP/IP
            details, reading the Tanenbaum book, doing socket programming etc.
            
            So these generic tech and computer skills are in my opinion more
            about giving people a sense of agency, which is still quite
            something. That you put together your own PC, that you download
            your own subtitle files for the movies and figure out how to adjust
            the sync to match your version of the movie etc. It just gives you
            a feeling that you can do things. If something is wrong, you can,
            and therefore want to fix it. It's a different attitude compared to
            just accepting everything as it is.
       
        charcircuit wrote 1 day ago:
        >how to do SQL injection, how to use rainbow tables to figure out
        hashes, how to use steganography to hide data in images, and more.
        
        I feel like there are more practical and timeless topics that will
        still be relevant in 2040. Frameworks (abstraction) have largely solved
        SQL injection and bad cryptography.
        
        Personally I would avoid a cybersecurity focused corriculum and just
        focus on regular software engineering. Being able to think like who you
        are attacking and knowing the common pitfalls is most of the battle.
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          Eh… I just went to Stack Overflow and searched for "php mysql", and
          the first result ( [1] ) – asked 12 days ago – had SQL injection
          
   URI    [1]: https://stackoverflow.com/q/79790370
       
            charcircuit wrote 1 day ago:
            This is part of the long tail. I think you are underestimating the
            role AI is going to be playing in 2040. ChatGPT can already solve
            that stack overflow question and make the code use the prepared
            statement correctly. AI will play a pivotal role in helping with
            the long tail of these issues.
       
              twostraws wrote 22 hours 34 min ago:
              If it's all the same to you, I'm going to focus on inspiring
              people with today's technology, and hopefully help fuel their
              curiosity to learn about what comes in the future – whatever
              that may be.
       
                charcircuit wrote 20 hours 38 min ago:
                Yes, that is part of what my point is. To focus on today's
                technology rather than the technology of the 90s or 00s.
       
                  saagarjha wrote 9 hours 23 min ago:
                  Then why are you talking about hypothetical technology from
                  2040?
       
        harperlee wrote 1 day ago:
        Game for kids, where you dedicate a third of the screen to a locked
        hint list and a very prominent "Buy Hint Tokens" button? Hard pass. [1]
        The game industry needs to move away from milking vulnerable people
        with pay-to-win schemes.
        
   URI  [1]: https://www.hacktivate.app/img/framed-ipad-3.png
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          Nothing about Hacktivate is pay-to-win – you can solve every
          challenge without using a single hint, and even if someone does need
          hints there are a bunch given away for free. Even more, for people
          who want the game but don't want micro-transactions, there's a
          dedicated version of the game ( [1] ) that is a one-time purchase
          with no in-app purchases at all.
          
   URI    [1]: https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/hacktivate-education-edition/i...
       
          fainpul wrote 1 day ago:
          Also the game costs 20 bucks but it's offered as "Free" with "in app
          purchases". But you can only play one challenge until you need to buy
          the game. That's just false advertising. Just be upfront about it and
          sell the game for 20 bucks instead.
       
            twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
            I'm not sure where you got the one challenge thing from – you can
            play 10 challenges without needing to pay a cent. Plus, there is a
            dedicated version you can buy up front front without any in-app
            purchases, right here:
            
   URI      [1]: https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/hacktivate-education-edition...
       
              fainpul wrote 1 day ago:
              I installed and played the game on my mac this morning. I tried
              several ways to get to another challenge I could play, but was
              unable.
              
              The link I used is the one from your site.
       
                twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
                All you have to do to unlock the next free challenge is solve
                the previous challenge. The first 10 tutorials are designed to
                teach the basics of the app – how to transform data with the
                toolbox, how to read web page source code and run JavaScript,
                basic Linux commands, etc – and so they are run in order.
                There are 10 in total, all free, plus another one in the first
                territory afterwards, which teaches the basics of ciphers.
       
                  fainpul wrote 1 day ago:
                  So there's our misunderstanding. I skipped the tutorial,
                  because I already saw your demo video. Then I clicked on the
                  US on the map and played the first challenge called
                  "Tutorial: Cipher salad". After that I always got the "Buy
                  now" popup when I tried to play another challenge.
                  
                  But you're right, the tutorial is playable too and it
                  consists of the same kind of challenges, not just simple
                  explanations how to play. So my initial statement was not
                  correct.
       
                    twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
                    I see. Well, I hope you can appreciate there are limits to
                    what I can do – if someone skips the free challenges then
                    is unhappy there aren't enough free challenges, I don't
                    really know how I can fix that. If you want to go back to
                    play the tutorial challenges, they remain available.
       
          notachatbot123 wrote 1 day ago:
           [1]
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.darkpattern.games/
   URI    [2]: https://nobsgames.stavros.io/
       
          fodmap wrote 1 day ago:
          Right, that's absolutely disgusting. The only reason that would be
          somewhat OK is if that's part of the game, and you can hack it to get
          tokens for free.
       
          zwnow wrote 1 day ago:
          I've watched my grandma play a mobile game a few days ago. It has
          been a simple word search game. A level takes her about 2-3 minutes
          to beat. Every single time she beats a level, she is getting 1-2 30
          second advertisements that she has to sit through. Its honestly so
          sad to see. Thankfully she knows that all mobile ads are bullshit and
          how to close them, but still... This market is shameless.
       
        Liftyee wrote 1 day ago:
        Neat... Brings memories of the national cybersecurity courses you were
        talking about.
        
        I never figured out how to do that "cat flag" terminal privilege
        escalation.
       
          twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
          Those cybersecurity challenges are incredible – I see kids light up
          when they take part, finding a passion for something they didn't even
          known existed previously. I don't think the teams who organize them
          get enough recognition for their incredible work!
       
        sikimiki wrote 6 days ago:
        In the early 2000s, growing up in a third-world country with limited
        resources meant computers and operating systems were constantly
        breaking. That scarcity pushed me to tinker and experiment, I learned
        to troubleshoot hardware, reinstall OSes, and reverse-engineer odd
        behaviors. I even experimented with keyloggers out of curiosity. That
        practical, trial-and-error schooling is where a lot of the so called
        “common sense” about security comes from. It is less theory, more
        failing, fixing, and learning what actually keeps one safe online.
        
        I think it all stemmed from curiosity to learn and tinker. I wonder if
        gamifying it is enough but it’s a step.
       
          TimByte wrote 1 day ago:
          That era of breaking-and-fixing out of necessity was like the
          ultimate bootcamp
       
          kace91 wrote 1 day ago:
          “El hambre agudiza el ingenio”, we say in Spanish. Hunger
          sharpens the mind.
          
          Growing up with fewer resources than others paradoxically leads to
          better outcomes sometimes, since you’re conscious of the barriers
          around you and that motivates you to overcome them.
          
          If I had grown up with the latest iPhone I would never have cared
          about rooting and custom ROMs, for example.
       
          cat-whisperer wrote 1 day ago:
          Started modding Android ROMs at 13. That age is perfect; old enough
          to understand consequences, young enough to not care about breaking
          things.
          
          Hardware hacking tools have gotten more accessible since then. The
          Flipper Zero makes this easier now; 256KB RAM, open firmware, $200.
          Compare that to needing a full PC setup in the 2000s. Lower barrier,
          same curiosity-driven learning.
          
          Guided challenges vs pure exploration; both work. The structure gets
          more people started. The ones who stick around will break out of the
          sandbox anyway.
       
          zkmon wrote 1 day ago:
          Early 90's were more fun. I modified DOS command.com file to change
          the outputs it prints, drilled holes into laptop to attach broken
          hinges, break electronic garbage to salvage wires and interesting
          things, disassemble disk drives, ...
       
            twostraws wrote 1 day ago:
            I agree that the early 90's were a lot of fun – I remember
            drilling holes in 3.5-inch floppy disks to increase their capacity,
            blissfully unaware that actual HD floppies had a different coating
            entirely…
       
              skeeter2020 wrote 1 day ago:
              Two (of the many) mind-blowing discoveries of the 80's:
              
              1. there was a disk notcher (the Nibbler?) that would DOUBLE the
              capacity of a 5 1/4 floppy!
              
              2. you could just use a regular paper hole punch and a few select
              clips to do the same thing!
              
              All my C64 floppies had faint parallel pencil lines across the
              top to line up the slots and what looked like mouse-nawed holes
              on one side.
       
            marak830 wrote 1 day ago:
            Haha that reminds me, Qbasic using the help file to figure out how
            to program.  Taking apart a HD and getting my fingers pinched
            between the two bloody strong magnets.
            
            Amazing what you learn when you have no other distraction xD
       
          twostraws wrote 6 days ago:
          I suspect gamifying it isn't enough, but as you say it's a step, and
          if it helps more people get involved then hopefully others can
          provide more steps to follow.
       
        rogermungo wrote 6 days ago:
        Nice..    
        But Damn.. Apple only  : (
       
          twostraws wrote 6 days ago:
          Yeah, sorry; I know my limitations, and would rather do one thing
          very well than two things kinda average.
       
            amelius wrote 1 day ago:
            You picked the least hacker-friendly platform ...
       
       
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