_______               __                   _______
       |   |   |.---.-..----.|  |--..-----..----. |    |  |.-----..--.--.--..-----.
       |       ||  _  ||  __||    < |  -__||   _| |       ||  -__||  |  |  ||__ --|
       |___|___||___._||____||__|__||_____||__|   |__|____||_____||________||_____|
                                                             on Gopher (inofficial)
   URI Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
   URI   Fran Sans – font inspired by San Francisco light rail displays
       
       
        stevage wrote 1 hour 7 min ago:
        It would be interesting to see a version with the grid line gaps
        included.
       
        shahzaibmushtaq wrote 1 hour 27 min ago:
        > Life is so rich when ease and efficiency are not the measure.
        
        This is it, and I really like the CSS effects when
        highlighting/selecting words, sentences and paragraphs
       
        socalgal2 wrote 1 hour 55 min ago:
        Since the article compares the SF “and the Bay Area” to LA, they
        might be surprised to find that the greater LA area has 70+ public
        transit organizations. Just to name a few, LA County Transit Authority,
        Big Blue Bus, Long Beach Transit, Torrence Transit, LADOT, OCTA, …
       
        thenoblesunfish wrote 2 hours 8 min ago:
        Fun! Would love a "style 4" where you see the thin lines e.g. within
        the solid squares.
       
        pietroppeter wrote 3 hours 21 min ago:
        Great work! As a side track, it led me to dive into the history of the
        manufacturing company of Breda trains. Originally founded in Milan late
        1800s by Ernesto Breda for locomotives, expanded in the war products
        during the wars, and went through nationalization, fusion to become
        AnsaldoBreda and later bough by Japanese to become Hitachi Rail Italy.
        
   URI  [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitachi_Rail_Italy
       
          inferiorhuman wrote 53 min ago:
          Later to get banned from bidding on the contract for the replacement
          vehicles because the trains were so mediocre (although somehow still
          better than the earlier Boeings) and the company so brazenly corrupt.
          
          Meanwhile SF runs 1800s–early 1900s era Milan trams on their
          heritage line.    Not built by Breda, because of course.
       
        kelnos wrote 5 hours 4 min ago:
        Ah that's so neat!  I've noticed some of those details before, in how
        some of the segments of the display are shaped in various ways that
        lets them draw characters with smooth edges, in ways you wouldn't be
        able to do with a display where the segments' shapes are homogeneous.
        
        As soon as I saw the first photo, though, I was a little sad to realize
        that it was of the old-style trains that are being phased out.    The
        author notes this near the end, but I think that the trains are
        actually completely phased out as of a few weeks ago, maybe even before
        this article was posted.
       
        everdev wrote 6 hours 40 min ago:
        This is difital archiving and will be absorbed by AI and seen by aliens
        in another galaxy thousands of years from now in a borg cube.
       
        1121redblackgo wrote 7 hours 1 min ago:
        Thoroughly dank. Very well done and interesting write up.
       
        pclark wrote 7 hours 9 min ago:
        Are the light rail displays ever sold anywhere?
       
        cmdoptesc wrote 7 hours 14 min ago:
        Wow, the props to the author for digging deep!
        
        > Looking inside of the display, I found labels identifying the make
        and model. The signs were designed and manufactured by Trans-Lite,
        Inc., a company based in Milford, Connecticut that specialised in
        transport signage from 1959 until its acquisition by the Nordic firm
        Teknoware in 2012. After lots of amateur detective work, and with the
        help from an anonymous Reddit user in a Connecticut community group, I
        was connected with Gary Wallberg, Senior Engineer at Trans-Lite and the
        person responsible for the design of these very signs back in 1999.
        
        Few years back, we had a work thread about this exact Muni Metro font
        and the designers brought up segmented types. We never got as far as
        the author in finding the source, but did bring up other systems with
        similar typefaces.
        
        NYC has their own called R142A: [1] And here's one inspired by Spain's
        transit system:
        
   URI  [1]: https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/55346-r142a-mosaic-lcd-...
   URI  [2]: https://aresluna.org/segmented-type/
       
          rob74 wrote 2 hours 3 min ago:
          Interesting! Since Ansaldo Breda is an Italian company, I would have
          thought that the signs were European as well. Similar LCD "mosaic"
          displays were pretty widespread over here until a few years ago (e.g.
          in some platform signs on the Munich U-Bahn: [1] , scroll to
          "LCD-Digitalanzeiger'), but they have all been replaced with standard
          TFT flat screens (or in the case of line displays on vehicles, LED
          based dot matrix displays) since...
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.u-bahn-muenchen.de/betrieb/zugzielanzeiger/
       
            inferiorhuman wrote 58 min ago:
            Yeah I'm surprised too – Breda spent a metric fuckton of money
            bribing Willie Brown so that the city would buy those damn things. 
            Lots of European kit on them (like the Scharfenberg couplers), most
            of it never worked right.
       
          kccqzy wrote 6 hours 44 min ago:
          R142A is simply the name of a type of subway car. The NYCT identifies
          the car by contract number which is increasing (bigger number means
          more recent). The latest is R211 in three variants (R211T, R211S,
          R211A).
       
            cmdoptesc wrote 3 hours 16 min ago:
            Thanks for the correction!
       
        antidamage wrote 7 hours 18 min ago:
        I would invite everyone to try selecting text on the linked page to see
        the most low-key awesome effect ever.
       
        waiwai933 wrote 7 hours 40 min ago:
        I'm struggling with deciphering the punctuation symbol between the £
        and the |. Any help? (Possibly the @ symbol but my reading of the text
        suggests there isn't a glyph for it, but maybe I'm wrong there)
       
          tylervigen wrote 7 hours 26 min ago:
          I think it is @ given the context of the next paragraph, where they
          complain that @ doesn't work well in the grid.
       
        jdnier wrote 7 hours 40 min ago:
        I had not heard of Glyphs, the tool the author used. I used to use
        Fontographer long ago. [1] It's a great article!
        
   URI  [1]: https://glyphsapp.com/learn/recommendation:get-started
       
          antidamage wrote 7 hours 24 min ago:
          Also a Fontographer user here. That's how you know you did font
          design in the last 90s.
       
        kingkongjaffa wrote 8 hours 47 min ago:
        This reminded me of [1] prev hn discussion:
        
   URI  [1]: https://aresluna.org/the-hardest-working-font-in-manhattan/
   URI  [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43053419
       
        bcoates wrote 9 hours 21 min ago:
        "Unlike New York, Chicago or L.A., which each have one, maybe two, San
        Francisco and the greater Bay Area have over two dozen"
        
        Whaaa...? Los Angeles has a whole rat's nest of overlapping agencies,
        (mostly different cities and like 4 kinds of train for some reason)
       
        yawnxyz wrote 9 hours 45 min ago:
        I would love to build a programmatic version of this font defined by an
        array of shapes (full square, triangle, rounded corner, pizza, and
        notch), and rotations, but I think even that would be a somewhat
        offense of the license, so I'm not going to publish it.
        
        An array of those would spell out most of the symbols. Some of her
        characters violate this pattern though so it only approximates most of
        the symbols.
        
        If lilsneddz responds with yes, I'd love to publish the code so people
        can make public interactive displays with her font design.
        
        I think a system like this would make it easier to prototype lowercase
        and other international symbols though!
       
          lilsneddz wrote 9 hours 44 min ago:
          Are you joking? this sounds sick. Please go ahead!!!
          I think I need to update my website so it's more clear how open this
          is, haha!
       
            yawnxyz wrote 9 hours 40 min ago:
            wait really?? ok!! I thought I would actually build a typography
            editor around it, maybe if you click a cell it would rotate symbols
            and/or orientations. Open source of course!
            
            This is what I'll do instead of spending time with family over
            thanksgiving :P
       
              hamburglar wrote 8 hours 5 min ago:
              “I really like fun.  So I made my own font editor.”  —-
              tom7
              
   URI        [1]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qTBAW-Eh0tM
       
                yawnxyz wrote 5 min ago:
                learned a ton there
       
              california-og wrote 9 hours 17 min ago:
              check out [1] and [2] for a few editors that work this way (i
              made glyphdrawing.club). but please make one for this!
              
   URI        [1]: https://fontstruct.com/
   URI        [2]: https://glyphdrawing.club/
       
                yawnxyz wrote 11 min ago:
                wow thank you for sharing!! I'm new to all this but I'm clearly
                finding a new hobby
       
        Kylejeong21 wrote 9 hours 52 min ago:
        i was literally just looking for some kind of font for my personal site
        and this is super cool.
       
        kevin_thibedeau wrote 9 hours 53 min ago:
        There are higher detail versions of these LCD displays like those used
        on the NJ Transit Comet cars: [1] Should be possible to get a passable
        @ on those.
        
   URI  [1]: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recluse26/286211358/
       
          windows2020 wrote 7 hours 34 min ago:
          That was my first thought as well. I've spent time on those cars on
          the Coast Line. They used to indicate the next stop, but it broke at
          some point. I don't ride much anymore. I'm not surprised what's
          pictured is NJ TRANSIT, the fallback. Would be nice to have faster
          trains someday. Until then, crack a beer and enjoy the ride.
       
        nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote 10 hours 14 min ago:
        I am not expert but I really like the font. It does a lot for such a
        primitive display. Makes me wonder why we used to have those bad 80s
        90s alphanumeric LCD displays in most places too cheap for pixels when
        they could have done this.
       
        some_guy_nobel wrote 10 hours 19 min ago:
        > For commercial and non-commercial use of FRAN SANS, please get in
        touch: emily@emilysneddon.com
        
        Cool article, pretty lame that the person creating a recreation of a
        public-funded font is gatekeeping it behind their email, though.
       
          lilsneddz wrote 9 hours 59 min ago:
          Ouch, that was certainly not my intention. I didn't expect this to be
          shared around, and hadn't considered the best way to make it
          available. It's open, and I've shared it for free with every single
          person who has emailed me. I feel like this slower form of
          distribution is closer to the original intent of the font as I've
          been able to connect and chat with lots of incredible SF locals and
          Muni fans in the process. :)
          
          I made Fran Sans for fun in my own spare time which was a lot of
          work. I do want to add that all fonts are inspired by work that came
          before it... yet at some point, the font becomes your own. Yes, Fran
          Sans is based on the Trans-Lite signage, however when I digitised it,
          I had to make a number of my own personal design decisions along the
          way which makes this work my own. Particularly the addition of
          different styles and characters that were never made for the original
          signage.
          
          I hoped my intent came through in my commitment to researching and
          sharing this piece of local history that would have otherwise been
          lost as there was nothing to be found online when I started this
          journey.
          
          Hope this clears up my intention, I'd love to send you a copy if
          you're interested, and I'm open to hearing your distribution ideas.
       
            dirtybirdnj wrote 5 hours 2 min ago:
            I agree with the hamburglar (lol) you did awesome work and you owe
            the internet nothing. the 3d printing community is rife with "stl
            please" expectations that everyone wants to share everything and it
            should all be free. Give it away if you can, but I think its
            important to have some value to the creative work like this that is
            done.
            
            > I've shared it for free with every single person who has emailed
            me.
            
            Excited and waiting :) I think it's going to make really cool pen
            plotter art
       
            hamburglar wrote 7 hours 56 min ago:
            You just gotta get used to a knee jerk “you’re open sourcing
            wrong” reaction you’re gonna get from a community of people who
            are accustomed to it all being done in a certain way (namely, that
            it’s generally open and copyable without interaction with -gasp-
            humans). You’re doing fine and your responses have been perfect
            imo.
       
        int0x29 wrote 10 hours 29 min ago:
        When I was a child the front side displays on new Muni buses used to
        use these probably solonoid driven LED arrays.    If you sat under one
        you could here this clattering sound that sounded kinda like rain each
        time the display changed.  This discussion is bringing back old
        memories of those.
        
        The older Breda trains and I think buses also used to use backlit paper
        rolls for signs: [1] Those were significantly more readable
        
   URI  [1]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/T_Third_Is...
       
          inferiorhuman wrote 7 hours 19 min ago:
          Assuming you mean one of these guys: [1] [2] The signs made quite a
          racket, but so did the buses (well, the first model I linked to).
          
          Fun fact: When Muni first rolled out the digital signs on their newer
          Bredas the set the signs to rotate through three different pieces of
          information.  So for 2/3 of the time you had no indication of where
          the train was headed.
          
          Bonus fun fact: the cloth rolls have a variety of routes and
          destinations that never came to be.
          
   URI    [1]: https://cptdb.ca/wiki/images/6/60/San_Francisco_MUNI_8001-a....
   URI    [2]: https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/File:San_Francisco_MUNI_8110...
       
            rsynnott wrote 23 min ago:
            When I was a kid, DART (a not-quite-metro rapid transit thing in
            Dublin) trains had printed maps with LEDs for each station; they
            were green until the train passed them, then turned red. This
            seemed like absolute magic to me at the time.
            
            When a branch line was added, these displays were updated, though
            they weren’t put in the newer rolling stock. Then another station
            was opened on the existing line, and they just switched them off.
            They’re still present on some trains, but haven’t done anything
            in 15 years. They’ll finally presumably go away in the next year
            or so, as the ‘80s rolling stock they’re found in is due to be
            retired. I’ll kind of miss them.
       
          lilsneddz wrote 10 hours 24 min ago:
          They certainly did. The SFMTA also showed these to me and explained
          that not only were they extremely temperamental, but it also cost
          about $3k to print one of the curtains with the special barcode that
          prompts the curtains to rotate.
       
        kens wrote 10 hours 34 min ago:
        I appreciate that the author talked to various people (technician,
        engineer) and visited the shop rather than just doing online research.
        It's rare for people to go to the effort of in-person research.
       
        flypunk wrote 10 hours 51 min ago:
        This post ends with a beautiful poem set in Frans Sans
        
        OUTSIDE MY LIFE,
        INSIDE THE DREAM.
        
        FALLING UP THE STAIRS,
        INTO THE STREET.
        
        LET THE CABLE CAR
        CARRY ME.
        
        STRAIGHT OUT OF TOWN,
        INTO THE SEA.
        
        PAST THE DAHLIAS AND
        THE SELF-DRIVING CARS.
        
        THE CHURCH OF 8 WHEELS.
        THE LOWER HAIGHT BARS.
        
        THE PEAK HOUR SPRAWL.
        THE KIDS IN THE PARK.
        
        THE SLANTING HOUSES.
        THE BAY AFTER DARK.
        
        MY WINDOW, MY OWN
        SILVER SCREEN.
        
        I FOLLOW WHERE THE
        FOG TAKES ME.
        
        By MADDY CARRUCAN
       
          namanyayg wrote 5 hours 32 min ago:
          I moved to SF this year and I love this poem.
          
          Q: is the church of 8 wheels really a popular destination? Or is this
          the poet's bias towards the haight and hayes areas?
          
          For me, Mission Dolores represents "classic SF" and is the area I'm
          fondest of -- and contrarily, the Salesforce Park and the surrounding
          area is the pinnacle of tech & capitalism (and b2b saas.)
       
        shevy-java wrote 11 hours 2 min ago:
        So ... hard to read then?
       
        lynndotpy wrote 11 hours 20 min ago:
        This is the spitting image of the "FontStruct" tool, which I have fond
        memories of! I wonder if there was some overlap.
        
        I second the sentiments here about typography nerds. This is very very
        cool.
       
        seniortaco wrote 11 hours 30 min ago:
        For some reason when I read this font in the digital samples, it feels
        a bit Soviet? I subconsciously expect the text to be in cyrillic.
       
        Beijinger wrote 11 hours 30 min ago:
        For commercial and non-commercial use of FRAN SANS, please get in
        touch: emily@......com
       
        msarnoff wrote 11 hours 31 min ago:
        I have seen these throughout the US and Europe and been fascinated by
        them. Penn Station has (had? been a while) a big one with more segments
        per character. I’ve been trying forever to find the name of this
        particular style of segmented displays and get more info on them. The
        closest I could find is “mosaic display.”
        
        Love this article!
        
        Signed,
        someone who has an obsession with segmented displays
       
          badlibrarian wrote 10 hours 47 min ago:
           [1]
          
   URI    [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-flap_display
   URI    [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-disc_display
       
            msarnoff wrote 10 hours 42 min ago:
            When I was last at Penn Station in the 2010s their departure board
            was a mosaic LCD like the article, not a split-flap display: [1] I
            do miss the split flap displays at the Boston and Providence Amtrak
            stations though…
            
   URI      [1]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Penn_S...
       
          sho_hn wrote 11 hours 5 min ago:
          It's probably Reitberger's 38-segment AFA alphanumeric LCD: [1] [2]
          These are very common here.
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.reitberger.de/English/Large%20displays/Alphanume...
   URI    [2]: https://www.reitberger.de/English/Broadsheet/Prospekt_GA_AFA...
       
            Aloisius wrote 8 hours 59 min ago:
            The Penn Station passenger display was, according to the NYT,
            segmented LCD glass made by Signature Technologies in Arizona.
            
            It had 43 segments (each character had a 13 segment column, 17
            segments column, then another 13 segment column that was a mirror
            of the first). You can see the segment shape on the original sign:
            [1] The same segment design was used on in Spain along with a more
            angular version:
            
   URI      [1]: https://media.wired.com/photos/59327db4aef9a462de983397/3:...
   URI      [2]: https://web.archive.org/web/20210602143217im_/https://pbs....
       
        meta-level wrote 11 hours 49 min ago:
        I like it because my first name is Frans
       
        myself248 wrote 12 hours 32 min ago:
        I wonder what's happening to the displays that're being retired! I hope
        someone can nab them from the waste stream...
       
          lilsneddz wrote 10 hours 57 min ago:
          Hi, I'm Emily the designer of Fran Sans. One of the Breda cars is
          going to the California State Railroad Museum, and it has the
          displays in it. I also suggested to the Letterform Archive in SF that
          they may have interest in it. I do know they've archived some of the
          NY subway curtain displays, so I think it's only fair they save one
          of these in their collections too.
       
        agg23 wrote 13 hours 6 min ago:
        Beware that pressing the back arrow twice takes you to unexpected naked
        photos.
       
          seniortaco wrote 11 hours 29 min ago:
          Are they naked photos you've seen before?
       
          crazygringo wrote 12 hours 50 min ago:
          This is the second comment I've seen on HN today about the back
          button having unexpected results on a site.
          
          I'm so confused -- I use Chrome on a Mac and my back button works
          entirely normally. No naked photos, sorry to report.
          
          Is this a real thing that Chrome isn't susceptible to? Or are people
          just making jokes?
       
            adastra22 wrote 11 hours 50 min ago:
            Use the arrow key. It moves the carousel, landing on some
            scandalizing artistic photos.
       
              crazygringo wrote 7 hours 26 min ago:
              Oh, thank you. I've never heard of the left arrow key being
              called the back arrow.
       
              wkat4242 wrote 10 hours 32 min ago:
              Not much scandalising in that IMO. Very arty photos. Would anyone
              find this offensive?
       
                adastra22 wrote 7 hours 48 min ago:
                I don’t think any reasonable person would, but there are
                contexts in which unexpected partial nudity might be
                troublesome. If one’s a librarian or teacher browsing the web
                from a very public desk where people can see my screen, I’d
                appreciate the warning.
       
            decimalenough wrote 12 hours 12 min ago:
            Here you go: [1] NSFW, obviously, but also not all that
            titillating. (It's artsy B&W photography of women in their
            bathrooms.)
            
   URI      [1]: https://emilysneddon.com/tinn
       
            anamexis wrote 12 hours 39 min ago:
            They mean the left arrow key on your keyboard.
       
        gorgoiler wrote 13 hours 14 min ago:
        I like the underlying commitment to design in the original displays. 
        Seemingly the double height slants on the bottom are solely for
        rendering the letter V.  They have no other purpose than for that
        letter.
       
          lilsneddz wrote 11 hours 0 min ago:
          I'm the designer of Fran Sans and I love that you noticed this detail
          in the original displays!!! :)
       
        roughly wrote 13 hours 15 min ago:
        That was a great read with a ton of fun little bread crumbs to follow.
        Tipo Velez/Super Veloz gets a mention, and it’s definitely worthy of
        a diversion if you haven’t seen it before.
        
        For all the modern handwringing about SF, it really is a hell of a city
        with a fascinating history.
       
        adastra22 wrote 13 hours 23 min ago:
        As a native that absolutely cringes at "San Fran" ... I still got mad
        respect for that awesome name. Well done.
       
          RyJones wrote 5 hours 19 min ago:
          It’s been a while since I grabbed this:
          
   URI    [1]: https://blog.ryjones.org/2006/10/21/Welcome-to-the-Bay-Area
       
          renewiltord wrote 9 hours 44 min ago:
          It’s funny how most SF posts will have an “as a native” say
          that. You don’t really get that from London as much. Strangely
          parochial attribute of the culture. I wonder which other cities have
          such populations. NYC has a big “transplant” vs. “native”
          thing going on so maybe it’s just American, but I think people do
          it in Vancouver too. Though Canadians just kind of copy Americans for
          the most part.
          
          I’ve taken to calling the city San Fran as a result. Sometimes I
          enjoy a good EssEffOh or Frisco too. Really gets the audience going.
       
            jeffreygoesto wrote 1 hour 38 min ago:
            London England or London Ontario?
       
            adastra22 wrote 7 hours 45 min ago:
            NYC is the only other one I can think of, though I’m sure there
            are many. Maybe LA as well? It’s just that the transplants
            outnumber the natives by a large amount. The house I live in now
            was fruit orchards when I was born.
       
          lilsneddz wrote 11 hours 4 min ago:
          Hey, I made this font. I really ummed and ahhed over the name for
          this exact same reason. But in the end it was just too clever to pass
          up. Thanks for moving past it, haha.
       
            neonmagenta wrote 3 hours 51 min ago:
            what you chose was 100% wayy too good to pass up, that wouldve been
            the first thing pun-lovers pointed out if you chose anything else.
            because ITS RIGHT THERE
       
            hamburglar wrote 8 hours 17 min ago:
            I also approve of the cleverness.  Correct choice not to pass it
            up.
            
            I also have a soft spot for typography weenies, and appreciation
            for well thought out typography in an age when it seems like it’s
            becoming rarer and rarer.  Great to see this on HN.
       
            drob518 wrote 8 hours 55 min ago:
            Bonus points for cleverness.
       
          decimalenough wrote 12 hours 14 min ago:
          I'll be sure to call it "Frisco" instead.
          
          +1 on the awesome name though.
       
            zjp wrote 9 hours 56 min ago:
            That's fine, it's what people from the east and south sides call
            it.
       
            bonoboTP wrote 11 hours 57 min ago:
            Sans Francisco
       
              simondotau wrote 11 hours 39 min ago:
              A silent router: Sans Fancisco
       
          jabberwhookie wrote 12 hours 52 min ago:
          I've always found that cringe to be a strange shibboleth. AFAICT
          everyone has to summarize with the bay area instead, which I find
          even more comic having grown up on a coast, aka a bay area.
       
            nvader wrote 6 hours 47 min ago:
            My theory for why "San Fran" is looked down upon is that the person
            saying it is perceived as making a claim to status: 'I am so cool
            and hip that I am on familiar terms with "San Fran".'
            
            But shortening San Francisco to San Fran is both very obvious, and
            betrays a cheap attempt at sophistication that the soul of SF
            rejects.
            
            SF feels like a transitory city as multiple successive waves of
            people drift in and out. That also contribute to why a shibboleth
            like this gets a lot of airtime. The episode probably recurs weekly
            in bars all over the city as someone who's just moved here calls it
            "San Fran", only to be corrected by someone who's been here for
            just a little longer.
       
            chaboud wrote 8 hours 23 min ago:
            Well, this is THE Bay Area, where we live in THE city, drive on THE
            101, and eat in THE Chinatown.... wait...
            
            Funny enough, though, it wasn't until I moved here 15+ years ago
            that it struck me how odd it is to call it "the Bay Area" and
            expect people to know what that means.    Nonetheless, sportscasters
            do it.    Musicians do it. All other bay areas are just areas around
            bays...
       
              stevage wrote 1 hour 6 min ago:
              like "the tristate"
       
              slater wrote 6 hours 49 min ago:
              > drive on THE 101
              
              excuuuuuuse you? It's "drive on 101" in NorCal :P
       
              ucarion wrote 6 hours 50 min ago:
              Eddie Izzard was joking in 1998 about the "The" and the
              prohibited names for The City ( [1] ), so it's probably been like
              this for many decades thence!
              
   URI        [1]: https://youtu.be/QRB_GhLXCds?si=R4kYkodzvYDxe33H&t=276
       
            adastra22 wrote 11 hours 53 min ago:
            The bay area is more than SF. If you mean San Francisco and don't
            want to say the whole name, you use either 'SF' or 'the city.'
            
            I'm not sure why it's a strange shibboleth? Not every name has to
            be shortened, and if you are going to shorten names, not every
            short form is acceptable. I don't know where "San Fran" came from,
            any more than "Cali", neither of which are used by locals, but it
            just doesn't feel respectable. It's not the name of the city.
       
              gghffguhvc wrote 8 hours 32 min ago:
              When I lived in SF I walked past this street art a couple of
              times a week and got a smile.
              
   URI        [1]: https://www.sfstairways.com/stairways/eugenia-avenue-pro...
       
                adastra22 wrote 5 hours 28 min ago:
                Ha, that’s great!
       
              gerdesj wrote 11 hours 46 min ago:
              "SF ... It's not the name of the city."
              
              Your words ... 8)
       
                adastra22 wrote 11 hours 28 min ago:
                You've never met an Alexander that despises being called
                "Alex"?
       
                  gerdesj wrote 9 hours 38 min ago:
                  No.  Why would you "despise" being referred to?
                  
                  My first name is Jonathan, I generally get referred to as
                  (int al) Jon, Jonny, Jo, or John (bloody silent letters).
                  
                  As it turns out, until I was 20 I thought my name was spelt
                  Jonathon.  I got a copy of my birth cert to get a student
                  loan and discovered the "truth" - even my passport was wrong
                  and my parents had to sort out the first few of those and
                  they should have known better!    I was born in 1970 and no one
                  noticed that I misspelt my own first name for 20 years.
       
                  mkoubaa wrote 9 hours 58 min ago:
                  No but they all seem upset when I call them Alexa
       
                clhodapp wrote 11 hours 42 min ago:
                I think it honesty just boils down to: It sounds bad.
       
        arkensaw wrote 13 hours 25 min ago:
        Be honest though, did the name come first?
       
          lilsneddz wrote 10 hours 59 min ago:
          Haha, hi, it's me, Emily, the designer of this font. It actually
          didn't come first! And strangely finding an available name was almost
          the hardest part.
       
        becomevocal wrote 13 hours 27 min ago:
        Have been in font picking mode recently so this was a relevant enough
        distraction. Excellent read!
       
        Johnny555 wrote 13 hours 28 min ago:
        >On route, train operators punch the code into a control panel at the
        back of the display, and the LCD blocks light on specific segments of
        the grid to build each letter
        
        I always thought those were mechanical displays with little mechanical
        shutters that moved to display the segments... like these: [1] Never
        knew they were LCD.
        
   URI  [1]: https://youtu.be/Gj_mTp6Ypzk
       
        Doctor_Fegg wrote 13 hours 29 min ago:
        For UK readers, this is eerily similar to the typeface originally used
        on the "Thames Turbo" trains (class 165/166) from their construction in
        the 1990s until a refurb about five years ago - I could believe it was
        the same manufacturer. Some photos: [1]
        
   URI  [1]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:166207_DMCO_Interior.J...
   URI  [2]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Rail_Class...
       
          croisillon wrote 13 hours 16 min ago:
          i believe that 3x5 display is quite common and might not have its
          origin in SF
       
            JackFr wrote 8 hours 42 min ago:
            It seems identical to the displays used in NJ Transit trains.
       
              Aloisius wrote 4 hours 16 min ago:
              NJ Transit uses 105-segment displays. Not only do they include
              lowercase letters, but the uppercase and numbers are noticeably
              different from MUNI's 38-segment displays.
       
                croisillon wrote 25 min ago:
                ha :) [1] and from that discussion: [2] in Vienna we have a 66
                segment:
                
   URI          [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/typography/comments/1jp9juj/i...
   URI          [2]: https://aresluna.org/segmented-type/
   URI          [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vienna_u-bahn_displ...
       
        oktwtf wrote 13 hours 39 min ago:
        Typography nerds are some of my favourite nerds.
        
        Font specimen pages are so often screaming with design language and
        intention, they push and prod to evoke and present.
        
        Maybe the secret has something to do with the lack of priority to the
        actual content; just present the font gosh-darn!
        
        Looks nicely executed within the confines of the inspiration. very cool
       
          shagie wrote 13 hours 14 min ago:
          Andrew Glassner's Notebook: Recreational Computer Graphics is a
          really neat book (I especially like the tiles that can add numbers). 
          The author's site is [1] Chapter 6 in the book ( [2] ) Signs of
          Significance starts with 7 segment displays to the 14 segment and
          5x7...
          
          He then goes on to the 66 segment Vienna underground font and an 83
          segment font he saw in an elevator at a Siggraph conference in
          Orlando ... and then concludes with his own 55 element mosaic.
          
          --
          
          Also, Adam Savage's Tested - [3] (3 days ago) looking at [4] At 7:00
          into the video is C & D pages looking at the modularity of a font.
          
          (the section "U & V" about 3/4 down the page has the modular
          components for Kombinations-Schrift [5] which was also looked at at
          22:00 into the video.
          
   URI    [1]: https://glassner.com/computer-graphics/
   URI    [2]: https://archive.org/details/andrewglassnersn0000glas/page/98...
   URI    [3]: https://youtu.be/eKCcqlJnZcA
   URI    [4]: https://www.kellianderson.com/books/alphabetinmotion.html
   URI    [5]: https://www.moma.org/collection/works/2724
       
            Aloisius wrote 3 hours 44 min ago:
            Someone made a JavaScript version of Glassner's 55 segment design
            along with a dozen others that's fun to play with:
            
   URI      [1]: https://aresluna.org/segmented-type/
       
              shagie wrote 3 hours 28 min ago:
              The six segment one... if you get going with it, it's not too
              difficult to read.  There are some odd ones there, but it's
              surprisingly readable (some are easier than some of the seven
              segment letterforms).
       
        eichin wrote 13 hours 42 min ago:
        FYI no lower case, also "contact the author for licensing".  (The
        article is a neat story of digging into the history of the displays
        which are about to be going out of service, as well as some practical
        aspects of the font design - it's just not casually available.)
       
          lilsneddz wrote 11 hours 2 min ago:
          Honestly, I wasn't expecting this font to go anywhere, and then the
          SF Chronicle reached out, which has been lovely. Anyone who emails me
          can have a copy, I just haven't made an easy download link. I've
          thought about it since, but actually it's way nicer to hear from
          people and hear about what they're making. It is a community-driven
          project, and this slower form of distribution feels closer to my
          original intent. :)
       
        aoki wrote 13 hours 44 min ago:
        > Back at the SFMTA, Armando told me the Breda vehicles are being
        replaced, and with them their destination displays will be swapped for
        newer LED dot-matrix units that are more efficient and easier to
        maintain. By the end of 2025 the signs that inspired Fran Sans will
        disappear from the city, taking with them a small but distinctive part
        of the city’s voice.
        
        :-(
       
          inferiorhuman wrote 2 hours 41 min ago:
          All of the Breda LRVs were retired earlier this month and their
          replacements use entirely different displays.  Can't say I'll be that
          nostalgic for the signs or trains.
       
          amelius wrote 13 hours 15 min ago:
          If the dot-matrix is fine enough, you could still render any font
          properly. Plus you can add emoticons :)
       
        ChrisArchitect wrote 13 hours 53 min ago:
        Start here for more of the actual font:
        
   URI  [1]: https://emilysneddon.com/fransans
       
          zygentoma wrote 13 hours 45 min ago:
          Both of these pages seem to me like they're designed for mobile-only
          usage.
          
          I'm sitting here with a 4k screen, browser maximized, and all text
          is, like, huuuuge!
          
          And the worst part? You can't zoom! Seems kind of user-hostile to me
          …
       
            pabs3 wrote 9 hours 26 min ago:
            Disabling CSS helps.
       
       
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