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   URI Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
   URI   IBM, sonic delay lines, and the history of the 80×24 display (2019)
       
       
        thangalin wrote 1 hour 3 min ago:
        The linage can be traced back to Basile Bouchon's paper tape invention
        in 1725. The article doesn't mention the role of punched cards in The
        Holocaust, though, which my blog post goes into:
        
   URI  [1]: https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2019/06/06/web-of-knowledge/
       
        Animats wrote 1 hour 30 min ago:
        The PARC crowd thought displays should have the form factor of a sheet
        of paper. Hence the Alto display.[1] That never caught on.
        
   URI  [1]: https://www.righto.com/2018/01/xerox-alto-zero-day-cracking-di...
       
          locallost wrote 44 min ago:
          I see people doing that today.
       
        BirAdam wrote 6 hours 9 min ago:
        Man. I love the design of old terminals, computers, and such.
        
        I am, also, extremely glad that these form factors were abandoned.
        Having an old terminal, it is possibly the least ergonomic machine I
        have ever used.
       
        thakoppno wrote 6 hours 18 min ago:
        One theory I saw argued the punch card size was the reason for 80x24.
        But why were punch cards that size?  They were designed off of the
        cards used for the census. Why were the census cards that size? 
        Because they were modeled after the dollar bill size.
        
        I do love thought experiments like this but do believe they’re
        insatiably unresolvable.
       
          staplung wrote 1 hour 45 min ago:
          And the reason they were modeled after the dollar bill size is
          because there were already many types of systems for storing and
          organizing them. That came in handy for the census.
          
          The old BBC Connections series has a segment with James Burke using
          the old census tabulators.
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6yL0_sDnX0&t=2640s
       
          ronsor wrote 6 hours 10 min ago:
          In the end, all reasons resolve to either "it's what we had at the
          time" or "someone thought it looked good."
       
            theamk wrote 4 hours 52 min ago:
            Not always, for example original CD disks had capacity of 74
            minutes to accommodate Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.
       
              rasz wrote 11 min ago:
              That one also turned out a myth :) CD size was determined by
              Cassette tape dimensions (diagonal, human can still hold one in
              one hand) and that combined with conservative pits/lands/track
              pitch choice drove the play time.
              
              thus CD runtime was derived from something "what we had at the
              time".
       
        veltas wrote 6 hours 31 min ago:
        From a linked article on shift registers:
        
        > To avoid these astronomical prices, some computers used the cheaper
        alternative of shift register memory.
        
        Might be a direction for 2026 too?
       
        II2II wrote 7 hours 14 min ago:
        Tangentially related: is there a history covering IBM's development of
        microcomputers? It is clear that the traditional story of the
        development of the IBM PC leaves out many important details. There the
        5100/5110/5120, which goes back to the mid-1970's and reflects the
        stereotype of IBM. There is also the System/23 DataMaster, where the
        hardware seems to be the basis of the IBM PC. This seems to go against
        the traditional story that the IBM PC was some sort of renegade
        project. (If anything, they appear to be companion projects. The main
        difference being the DataMaster's focus upon IBM firmware/software.)
       
          kens wrote 4 hours 16 min ago:
          Like I need another big project :-)
          
          The IBM Datamaster is an interesting system, but it was doomed. It
          had an 8-bit Intel 8085 processor, cost $9000, and came out in July
          1981. The IBM PC had a 16-bit 8088 processor, cost $1565, and came
          out a month later. So there was no reason to buy a Datamaster
          
          There's a good description of Datamaster in "A Personal History of
          the IBM PC" by Dave Bradley (one of the PC's designers).
          Unfortunately, it's paywalled.[1]
          
   URI    [1]: https://doi.ieeecomputersociety.org/10.1109/MC.2011.163
       
        hanfoo wrote 7 hours 15 min ago:
        Deeply fascinated by these historical threads. It is precisely the
        various design choices made throughout history that have shaped the
        computer systems we use today.
       
        lysace wrote 8 hours 3 min ago:
        No idea if this was a factor, but 80x25 on the IBM PC allows for
        showing 80x24 plus that extra line of function key labels: [1] (IBM
        BASIC screenshot)
        
   URI  [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_BASIC#/media/File%3AIBM_Cass...
       
          bluedino wrote 7 hours 6 min ago:
          Imagine when edit.com came out and QBASIC used it for the editor. You
          lost two more lines of valuable code space!
          
   URI    [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS_Editor#/media/File%3AMS...
       
            lysace wrote 2 hours 45 min ago:
            I recently went back to my 1993 Turbo Pascal code (mostly 2D VGA
            and Sound Blaster game engine experiments) on period correct
            hardware.
            
            I was surprised by how claustrophobic it felt to only see 21 lines
            of code in e.g. Turbo Pascal 7.0. Still didn’t like the squashed
            80x43 mode. [1] Then I remembered how larger displays and xterm
            felt like such a liberation a few years later.
            
   URI      [1]: https://winworldpc.com/screenshot/c38a28c3-84c3-ba28-1011-...
       
            jtarrio wrote 6 hours 56 min ago:
            You know, this is funny because QBasic did not use EDIT.COM.
            Instead, QBasic was the editor and EDIT.COM was a simple program
            that called "QBASIC /EDIT" :-)
       
              bluedino wrote 2 hours 49 min ago:
              It was basically the same thing. That's my point.
       
       
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