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       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
   URI   Hacking old hardware by renaming to .zip [video]
       
       
        kelvinjps10 wrote 9 hours 28 min ago:
        I really liked the video. I didn't realize you could build programs for
        no longer supported hardware like this.
        I had a similar epifany with SVG, there was an image that I needed to
        keep editing and then one day I opened the SVG file and realized it's a
        very readable file and then just built a python script that would
        modify the SVG file.
       
        tosti wrote 13 hours 24 min ago:
        Makes sense for an apk to be a zip file. Apps were supposed to be
        written in Java and that has always shipped binaries in zip files (jar
        or war).
       
          bombcar wrote 12 hours 19 min ago:
          There are many "file formats" that are just relabelled zips - the
          hard part is always reconstructing it after making a change.
       
            tosti wrote 8 hours 29 min ago:
            That's because zip is really just the first layer.
       
        elwebmaster wrote 14 hours 57 min ago:
        Why would you say "semi-legally"? Nothing "semi" here. What is
        "semi-legal" is making hardware e-waste by deciding it is "no longer
        supported". It is "semi" legal because it is legal under the corrupt
        political systems in most of the world but is criminal against humanity
        and the planet we all call home. In that sense if you can prevent
        e-waste trough any means you are a hero.
       
          kelvinjps10 wrote 9 hours 30 min ago:
          The semi legal process it's reverse engineering the code. I watched
          the video she uses gidra and other descompilation tools.
          The video it's really good
       
        albert_e wrote 15 hours 0 min ago:
        Has anyone does this for VIZIO app that controls among other things
        their soundbars (circa 2019)
        
        I moved to a different country and the app is not on google play store
        in the new geography.
        
        Even when it is installed somehow it is absolutely unreliable in
        pairing or controlling the device.
        
        Wish I had time to go on a quest and reverse engineer and build my own
        better controller.
       
          love2read wrote 12 hours 41 min ago:
          Might be worth taking a weekend day and letting claude code reverse
          engineer the apk (just download the apk off google) and then build an
          open source app with the functions you need
       
        userbinator wrote 16 hours 22 min ago:
        Warning: Very rambly and somewhat incoherent video; tried to pay
        attention due to the topic being of interest, but very quickly gave up.
        
        EULAs be damned, even the DMCA has exceptions for RE in the name of
        interoperability and repair.
       
          TZubiri wrote 15 hours 34 min ago:
          You're going to the bathroom at an airport? You pee in a urinal you
          can't even take home.
          
          YOU
          
          OWN
          
          NOTHING
       
            AlienRobot wrote 14 hours 4 min ago:
            Before 1984 "take a taxi" meant you could actually take the taxi.
       
              bombcar wrote 12 hours 21 min ago:
              Apparently Taxis in New York used to all be ex-cop cars, and cop
              cars all had the same key, so one key would get you any taxi.
       
                ErroneousBosh wrote 3 hours 50 min ago:
                Most agricultural plant had a "Lucas key" [1] which meant you
                could use any key to start any machine.
                
                I used to have one on my house keys long after I actually
                needed it, kind of an agricultural/industrial shibboleth. It's
                also how many many years ago I came to be drink-driving an
                eight tonne excavator through streets of Glasgow at 3am, with
                some rather grateful Strathclyde Police traffic cops keeping my
                way clear, but that's a whole 'nother story.
       
                  bombcar wrote 3 hours 14 min ago:
                  I have a ring somewhere with all the “common keys” such
                  as elevator overrides, construction equipment, etc.
       
                    ErroneousBosh wrote 1 hour 37 min ago:
                    I used to have a keyring with the dozen or so different
                    keys we have for network and equipment cabinets. One day I
                    left it at home, and when I got to site realised that the
                    cabinet was almost certainly one of the ones I didn't have
                    a key for anyway.
                    
                    I pulled the thin stainless strip out of an old wiper blade
                    I'd thrown into the boot of my car to put in the bin later
                    (and six months later, still had not), chopped two lengths
                    of it, bent one into an L-shape and filed the little notch
                    at the end of the other a little deeper and rounder. At
                    some point muuuuch later I welded a little stainless washer
                    to the ends of them both to put it on a keyring.
                    
                    Yes, it was quicker and easier to just rake the wafer locks
                    in the rack than find the right key.
       
            hsbauauvhabzb wrote 14 hours 22 min ago:
            You wouldn’t download a car
       
            mikkupikku wrote 14 hours 46 min ago:
            You're not taking all your shits in other people's bathrooms but
            soil your own instead?    What a chump, lmao.
       
              bombcar wrote 12 hours 20 min ago:
              "My boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I shit on
              company time."
              
   URI        [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gQgx-XX7yw
       
        morsch wrote 17 hours 35 min ago:
        What a coincidence, I just got an email announcing that Breville intend
        to orphan my Joule sous vide stick: the existing app will stop working,
        the new app is only available the US and Canada and in parts of Europe.
        
        Live in another country? You're s.o.l., it wasn't officially sold
        there. You need a new account as well, hope you like the TOS.
        
        All of this for a device whose core functionality -- setting a target
        temperature, getting the current temperature and checking for error
        states -- is both trivial and has no inherent need for internet
        connectivity.
        
        I suppose I should be grateful they're still supporting a device that's
        like 10 years old. Caveat emptor (I got it as a gift).
        
   URI  [1]: https://community.chefsteps.com/discussion/78615/joule-sous-vi...
       
          greenavocado wrote 10 hours 17 min ago:
          It is essential to purchase and configure Home Assistant ( [1] )
          compatible devices around the home whenever possible if you want a
          "smart home" that will last. Everything else is an Internet of Shit
          treadmill that lasts at most a few years before it falls off and is
          replaced by a new piece of e-waste.
          
   URI    [1]: https://www.home-assistant.io/
       
            seany wrote 2 hours 19 min ago:
            The caveat here is that it needs to be local. I have a few things
            that work with HA, but they basically highjack the apps cloud login
            tokens ..
       
          ThePowerOfFuet wrote 14 hours 35 min ago:
          >a device whose core functionality [...] is both trivial and has no
          inherent need for internet connectivity.
          
          For a while I've given a hard pass to anything which requires an app
          for such functionality, knowing full well that eventually I'll be
          locked out of it (not to mention the privacy implications of such
          designs).
          
          I encourage others to follow suit.
       
          Ekaros wrote 14 hours 42 min ago:
          From get go I considered the whole design with no interface on device
          a bad idea... Apps can and will often go. Better to have also the
          local controls.
       
            RajT88 wrote 37 min ago:
            It's a plus from the manufacturer side - kitchen gadgets you keep
            more than 10 years.
            
            With required smartphone app, it is almost assured to not work in
            10 years, and you have to buy another one.  Just another method of
            planned obsolesence.
       
          red_admiral wrote 14 hours 46 min ago:
          "With Breville+ Cooking, you’ll get: ... The ability to cook with
          or without WiFi anywhere, anytime."
          
          What has gone wrong with humanity, that we need to advertise that as
          a feature if you download a new app?
       
            sigbottle wrote 12 hours 11 min ago:
            On the one hand, every time I read an article like this I'm
            vindicated against astroturfed bots claiming that nothing ever
            happens and this isn't where we're headed.
            
            On the other hand, I don't want to be vindicated.
       
            duskdozer wrote 13 hours 26 min ago:
            It reads like a sarcastic post from 10 years ago ending in
            "Stallman was right"
       
          nkrisc wrote 15 hours 39 min ago:
          I have an Anova sous vide cooker that is also about 10 years old and
          has an app, but is fully functional without it.
          
          When I bought it the app was free, but then later became a
          subscription addon. However they grandfathered all original owners
          into a free lifetime subscription. Pretty classy.
       
            somat wrote 30 min ago:
            Needing an app for these things is stupid in the first place, but
            the real kick in the metaphorical nuts is that the needed app
            should be stored on the device. Want to use your phone to control
            the device load the program to do so off the device itself.
            
            We really only have one tech stack where this actually works, the
            web. And I consider this to be either the great failure of the app
            ecosystem(why on earth do apps need a manual install step?) or
            amazement that the corporate overlords let the web slip through the
            gaps.
            
            Is there a way to do web over bluetooth? or is that another missing
            piece?
       
            WalterBright wrote 2 hours 47 min ago:
            I've bought 4 internet radios over the last 25 years. They work for
            a few years, then are bricked because the remote server
            disappeared.
       
              EvanAnderson wrote 2 hours 5 min ago:
              You rented the devices with a full up-front payment, but the
              manufacturer stuck you with the e-waste problem when they decided
              to be come an absentee landlord.
              
              This needs to be fixed by regulation. If a device requires an
              online service to function it (a) needs to be clearly advertised
              as rental and not a purchase, and (b) the device manufacturer
              must take the devices back and deal with the e-waste if they
              discontinue the services or release the software stack (including
              complete and corresponding source code and build environment) to
              allow third-parties to host it.
       
          userbinator wrote 16 hours 27 min ago:
          This reads like satire:
          
          The ability to cook with or without WiFi anywhere, anytime.
       
            jgalt212 wrote 11 hours 23 min ago:
            Jack Donaghy would ride this pitch right up to the C Suite.
            
            “Ambition is the willingness to kill the things you love and eat
            them to survive”
       
            ErroneousBosh wrote 15 hours 18 min ago:
            If you're not cooking with WiFi, you need more key-down transmit
            power.
            
            I'm currently full QRO on the 13cm band with something around 1600W
            EIRP CW, and will be for several minutes until the curry base
            defrosts.
       
              ThePowerOfFuet wrote 14 hours 6 min ago:
              >WiFi
              
              >1600W EIRP
              
              Your local regulatory authority would like a word with you.
       
                ErroneousBosh wrote 11 hours 32 min ago:
                I hold a licence that allows me to transmit on pretty much
                whatever frequency I like with as much power as I like,
                wherever I like.
                
                Someone has to test the transmitter before you hand it off to
                the customer.
                
                Also, I'm in the UK, where it's hard enough to get the
                regulatory authorities to do anything about people causing
                interferenced to licensed chunks of band. You can wipe out the
                whole of 2.4GHz if you like, you literally could not pay them
                to take an interest.
                
                Edit: also you have probably done the same a couple of times
                today too.
       
                  Infernal wrote 11 hours 20 min ago:
                  So I thought your initial comment was a (pretty good) joke
                  about using a microwave oven, but now I’m not sure. Is this
                  testing license you reference a continuation of the joke or a
                  real thing?
       
                    ErroneousBosh wrote 6 hours 53 min ago:
                    The testing licence is real but the comment was a joke
                    about microwaving some sauce base :-)
       
            toxik wrote 15 hours 29 min ago:
            And in a bold face font:
            
            > You've always needed an account to operate your Joule Sous Vide
            with the Joule app. This is not a new requirement.
            
            Absolute comedy.
       
            esquivalience wrote 15 hours 31 min ago:
            I'd pay to cook with WiFi. Just imagine the signal strength!
       
              duskdozer wrote 13 hours 25 min ago:
              If you can cook with it, just imagine what it's doing to your
              brain! Forget about 5G...
       
              toast0 wrote 15 hours 13 min ago:
              Isn't that just a microwave oven, more or less?
       
                firtoz wrote 13 hours 37 min ago:
                Just need to amplify it 10000 times
       
                  RajT88 wrote 36 min ago:
                  So - I know folks who have mulled over attaching the emitter
                  of a microwave oven to a parabolic 2.4ghz antenna (indeed,
                  same spectrum).
                  
                  It would be cool...  For anyone who does not want children
                  one day.
       
                  userbinator wrote 54 min ago:
                  Or 40dB. This is why those working with RF use dB --- power
                  varies by orders of magnitude between the transmitter and
                  receiver.
       
        JimDabell wrote 18 hours 4 min ago:
        The same is true for iPhone apps (.ipa files). You can just unzip them.
       
          bombcar wrote 10 hours 26 min ago:
          The elites don’t want you to know this but the distribution file
          formats on the web are zips you can just unzip them I have 458 zips.
       
          thenthenthen wrote 13 hours 6 min ago:
          It is zip files all the way down
       
          ruguo wrote 13 hours 27 min ago:
          Indeed so
       
          echelon_musk wrote 14 hours 2 min ago:
          Wait till people discover file(1)!
       
            kotaKat wrote 13 hours 21 min ago:
            Even better, wait until people discover 7zip's 'parser mode' on
            Windows (especially). Right click a file -> 7zip -> Open archive ->
            #:e mode. Really fun way to quickly carve out files and snoop
            around. I use it like a poor man's binwalk to extract firmware
            files and updates and etc out of things to usual success.
            
            (#:e Parser mode, ignoring full archives, and checks every single
            byte position of a file for 'start of archive' bytes to parse
            archives out of a larger file.)
       
              mjmas wrote 12 hours 2 min ago:
              That's helpful. I always wondered what the * and # modes were for
              and why some sometimes only one of them worked.
       
          kotaKat wrote 15 hours 17 min ago:
          Sometimes you also find hidden things lurking accidentally left
          behind in IPAs and APKs that are nice and juicy and realize they've
          been shipped on Google Play/App Store for years.
          
          I've found everything from entire copies of internal company manuals
          to working test credentials for a physical place with a membership
          barcode in debug logs left inside the app from developers.
          
          Also sometimes changelogs left inside by accident which include
          things like "It hasn't been sanitized for outside consumption and
          thus should remain internal 
          to .  Deliver it externally at your own risk of embarassment."
       
          saagarjha wrote 15 hours 39 min ago:
          They are typically encrypted, though.
       
          zekica wrote 17 hours 5 min ago:
          .docx and .xlsx are also just zip files with XML and attachments. The
          bad thing is that the XML is Word's internal document structure
          serialized and behavior for some values is only defined in
          Microsoft's code.
       
            karamanolev wrote 15 hours 11 min ago:
            I've worked on docx and xlsx import/export and the public
            documentation for the formats was sufficient for normal documents
            (maybe excluding some very exotic features). That was ca 2010.
       
            godman_8 wrote 17 hours 1 min ago:
            Even pk3 files from the id Tech engine are just zip files.
       
          HelloUsername wrote 17 hours 43 min ago:
          For many things. Change .epub to .zip for example, you get html text
          and jpg images
       
        charcircuit wrote 18 hours 48 min ago:
        I've found that Claude Code works well at reversing java applications.
        Even if it is fully obfuscated claude can restore sensible names for
        everything and understand how it all works and answer questions about
        what it is doing.
       
          RobMurray wrote 1 hour 42 min ago:
          I got codex to vibe reverse engineer two devices from rom dumps
          recently - a talking timer that uses an 8051 cpu and a custom 5 bit
          audio format, and an ice cream van chime box that used a z80 and a
          ym2149 sound chip. Quite simple devices, but it did a great job. also
          made a web-based emulator for both. apparently WASM is hard, but I
          didn't notice.
       
          userbinator wrote 16 hours 30 min ago:
          Naming is an area where LLMs are useful; but I'd still use a regular
          Java decompiler (there are quite a few of these around) for the
          actual decompilation part.
       
            charcircuit wrote 15 hours 2 min ago:
            Claude will opt to use a regular Java decompiler too.
       
          26d0 wrote 16 hours 42 min ago:
          +1. While vibe-coding (natural language to code) is not such a great
          idea, we can always check the source, so vibe-reverse-engineering
          (code to natural language) may actually be quite useful.
       
          geon wrote 17 hours 4 min ago:
          I experimented with disassembling 6502 from the c64  California
          Games. Claude was very prone to bullshit.
       
            PhilipRoman wrote 13 hours 36 min ago:
            For RE cases where I know the original compiler used (a bit harder
            on C compilers due to huge number of obscure optimization flags), I
            give it a feedback loop to write a function that compiles to the
            original machine code.
       
              geon wrote 12 hours 21 min ago:
              Yeah, I had perfect disassembly, since that's a purely mechanical
              process. I used da65, which worked reasonably well.
              
              But you don't get any function names that way, obviously. Claude
              would claim some random function were applying friction based on
              just a subtraction. And a variable that had 2 possible states was
              named player_id, when the game supports 1-8 players.
              
              It was a bit better when the memory addresses were known IO
              registers, but not by much.
       
            charcircuit wrote 15 hours 0 min ago:
            While somewhat counterintuitive, I have found that Claude is better
            at decompilation than disassembly.
       
              wtetzner wrote 10 hours 6 min ago:
              AI models in general seem to get different assembly languages
              mixed up easily.
       
          egeozcan wrote 18 hours 22 min ago:
          Interesting, I'd have assumed the guardrails would disallow them from
          doing anything like that, regardless of legality. Do you need to
          "convince" it to do it or no questions asked?
       
            mlaretallack wrote 15 hours 39 min ago:
            I use AWS Kiro, with the Claude models, and its only to happy to
            help. I give it the headerless ghidra, and decompilers etc... and
            away it goes.
       
            ACCount37 wrote 16 hours 34 min ago:
            Claude doesn't care as long as you aren't straight up asking it to
            write exploits. It's my go-to for reverse engineering tasks.
            
            ChatGPT is full of refusals and has to be jailbroken out of it.
       
              jsmith45 wrote 5 hours 28 min ago:
              Right. Claude models seem to have had very limited prohibitions
              in this area baked in via RLHF. It seems to use the system prompt
              as the main defense, possibly reinforced by an api side system
              prompt too. But it is  very clear that they want to allow things
              like malware analysis (which includes reverse-engineering), so
              any server-side limitations will be designed to allow these
              things too.
              
              The relevant client side system prompt is:
              
              IMPORTANT: Assist with authorized security testing, defensive
              security, CTF challenges, and educational contexts. Refuse
              requests for destructive techniques, DoS attacks, mass targeting,
              supply chain compromise, or detection evasion for malicious
              purposes. Dual-use security tools (C2 frameworks, credential
              testing, exploit development) require clear authorization
              context: pentesting engagements, CTF competitions, security
              research, or defensive use cases.
              
              ----
              
              There is also this system reminder that shows upon using the read
              tool:
              
              Whenever you read a file, you should consider whether it would be
              considered malware. You CAN and SHOULD provide analysis of
              malware, what it is doing. But you MUST refuse to improve or
              augment the code. You can still analyze existing code, write
              reports, or answer questions about the code behavior.
       
            charcircuit wrote 18 hours 3 min ago:
            It is no questions asked. Even if you are reversing things like
            anticheats (I wanted to know the privacy implications of running
            the anticheat modules).
       
          fendy3002 wrote 18 hours 41 min ago:
          huh, iirc this already exists long before LLM
       
            colechristensen wrote 18 hours 25 min ago:
            Claude is quite skilled at using Ghidra, for example.
       
            charcircuit wrote 18 hours 35 min ago:
            It required a lot of manual work and for large apps like Minecraft
            it took teams of people to figure out what the symbol names should
            be slowly contributing a little bit every day.
       
       
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